Slopes and tractor tilt

[gwjd]

if the concern is mowing then a walk behined mower with a velkey platform will mow very steep slopes ...

 

[Boeing]

Might I ask a question here? I almost got in trouble on my FIRST mowing. It is 15-20 degrees bank and I was doing cautiously ok... a little nervous but very slowly mowing along this slope. The FEL was about 2" off the ground. As I got lower and lower down the slope the ground got softer, I guess from rain water staying in the bottom of the slope. The front tire started sinking in the soft ground and I felt the upper side coming up...!!! I was able to "Pucker" and steer down the slope in about .5 seconds and it stabilized. lesson number 1 learned.
I learned to go down the slope very slightly rather than perpendicular to the slope. So I slightly angled down to the bottom and then climbed very slightly back toward the top.....almost a figure 8 to do the entire slope. Much more stable.
My question is about the FEL. Is it an asset when lowered.....or might we be better off with it REMOVED? The bucket adds alot of LOW CG weight but the arms are HIGH CG weight. The FEL can tilt/push you out if you get stuck which is nice.
Thanks for all the good input on these posts.....there is an immense amount of experience and knowledge here. As a "low timer" I appreciate it. Rob

 

[RoyJackson]

My question is about the FEL. Is it an asset when lowered.....or might we be better off with it REMOVED? The bucket adds alot of LOW CG weight but the arms are HIGH CG weight. The FEL can tilt/push you out if you get stuck which is nice.

I remove my loader for two reasons:
1) As you wrote, the loader arms and masts are considerable weight above the axles and raise the C of G.
2) The loader adds to the length of the tractor/RFM. If I brush against the fence, it's normally with the loader.

So, I do not consider the loader an asset when mowing.
One caveat: the loader can act as front ballast for transporting my RFM. My old 790 could lift my 60" Befco RFM without the loader installed.
Now I have a Deere 4400 and an 84" RFM. I'll be dropping the loader off in a week or so for the first time (last season I just dropped the bucket) and I'm curious how the tractor (sans loader) will do with that big Befco mower.

 

[Reg]

Might I ask a question here? I almost got in trouble on my FIRST mowing. It is 15-20 degrees bank and I was doing cautiously ok... a little nervous but very slowly mowing along this slope. The FEL was about 2" off the ground. As I got lower and lower down the slope the ground got softer, I guess from rain water staying in the bottom of the slope. The front tire started sinking in the soft ground and I felt the upper side coming up...!!! I was able to "Pucker" and steer down the slope in about .5 seconds and it stabilized. lesson number 1 learned.
I learned to go down the slope very slightly rather than perpendicular to the slope. So I slightly angled down to the bottom and then climbed very slightly back toward the top.....almost a figure 8 to do the entire slope. Much more stable.
My question is about the FEL. Is it an asset when lowered.....or might we be better off with it REMOVED? The bucket adds alot of LOW CG weight but the arms are HIGH CG weight. The FEL can tilt/push you out if you get stuck which is nice.
Thanks for all the good input on these posts.....there is an immense amount of experience and knowledge here. As a "low timer" I appreciate it. Rob

Yes, no and maybe.
Mowing ACROSS slopes is best avoided if at all possible.

As you have rightly deduced, a loader is some fair amount of weight (could be in the range of another 30% to 35% additional weight) and it is fairly high.
Whether or not its C of G is above or below the tractor's C of G would determine whether it adds stability or instability.
I suspect that if you dropped it QUICKLY when in trouble.....
Well, all sorts of things COULD happen, e.g. if you have the bucket rolled forwards it could catch and cause some ugly tendency to pitch, if fully rolled back it would probably just skid along and could help prevent a roll.

Come to think of it,,, if you are carrying it a couple of inches from the ground and then go to float ... you would jettison some very low weight, i.e. probably raise the C of G of the whole rig.
It is not at all clear to me what happens then; "low hanging weight" has been shed, at the same time a wider and more stable footprint has been established for the front end - the pivoting front axle is no longer in the picture, etc.

Yes, you can "kedge out" with it if you get into soft stuff, it is HANDY for picking up random stuff you find when out there, it can be a useful balance to the rear mower.

Your tractor, your conditions, your choices, etc.

 

[crash325]

The safety police and the Real experts are going to get me.
First and foremost if your not sure or worried, don't go there.
A weight box or loaded FEL are going to create more problems than they cure. Same for filled tires unless you are going straight down the slope.

Now if you went there, get your seat belt off, Do not depend on the ROP to save you. You will have a second or so to bail out on the high side. Lot better to watch the tractor go than to ride it. Don't ask how I know this.

If you have a back hoe, turn it to the high side and extend it out. If you are really in trouble, it may not save you. Just a little more time to bail off.

Some Experts would not go into the woods with a back hoe. Me personally hate to go there without it.

Just remember if the world didn't suck - We would all fall off. :thumbsup:

 

[SPYDERLK]

A FEL is always to your detriment on a sideslope. All of its weight is forward and some of it overhangs the front axle. All stability comes from the rear. The more and further weight is shifted forward the worse it is for stability. At least remove your bucket if its QA. Most effect for least effort. :thumbsup:
larry

 

[RoyJackson]

The safety police and the Real experts are going to get me.

Well, we're not going to get you...but I'm sure going to disagree with most of what you wrote, except the FEL creating more problems then it cures (when mowing across a slope). And, if the loader is removed, there's no need for the ballast box (in fact, you probably won't be able to operate a tractor with ballast box, but sans loader...rear weight would lift the front end (ask me how I know this).

But the suggestion to not use the seatbelt or depend on the ROPS...that is a rather foolish suggestion.

 

[JoeL4330]

I'm not a physicist but the notion that the FEL raises the CG strikes me as inconsistent with the advice that, when traversing a slope with it attached, it should be kept as low as possible ...and certainly, I would never want to raise it to its highest when on a slope. Intuitively, lower is better, and maybe even with some ballast in it.

However, it does shift the CG forward which can unload the rear wheels when going down a slope which can, in turn, lead to loss of engine braking in 2wd and loss of braking, which are typically only rear wheel brakes ...hence the advice to always use 4wd in descending a steep slope to take advantage of engine braking on the front wheels ...then again, it can help coming up the slope, no?

Incidentally, when mowing downhill, if you were in 2wd and started to speed up uncontrollably (because, as described, the rears were unloaded) then some have suggested dropping the FEL, but I would suggest (from experience) that the first thing to do is RAISE the mower (assuming it is a rear 3ph mower) ...this is not intuitive, but makes sense and it works.

 

[ColdRider]

Can someone help me? I've looked all over my new Kubota and can't find the calculator.

 

[North Country]

I'm not a physicist but the notion that the FEL raises the CG strikes me as inconsistent with the advice that, when traversing a slope with it attached, it should be kept as low as possible ...and certainly, I would never want to raise it to its highest when on a slope. Intuitively, lower is better, and maybe even with some ballast in it.

I think what others are saying is that it raises the CG. When it's kept low, it raises the CG as little as possible. That's why you see so many recommendations to completely remove it when mowing (esp with a MMM).