draining ditch..

[JB4310]

Has anyone had any experience with this stuff?
EZ-Drain French Drain

It's a slotted corrugated pipe with a synthetic aggregate surrounding it, and the whole thing is covered in a geotextile sleeve. The manufacturer claims it is cheaper than pipe + gravel (when viewed as an installed system) , and I can believe it. It looks like the consumer version is available by special order from lowest and home depot for around $45/10 ft.

AndrewY

At that price there would only be a consumer version, it's kinda consumer oriented gimmicky if you ask me.

Would never be used on commercial jobs, I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it costs 10 times what a conventional system would cost

JB.

 

[andrewy]

They have a more engineered version with several pipe options, and a slew of engineering data on how it works. The consumer version is a one-size fits all sort of thing.

For my project, and where I would need around 100' or so, material cost would be around $500 for the prefab version including some sand, vs $150 for the pipe/geotextile, and plus maybe $300 for gravel. Sure materials would be cheaper old-school, but I could do it myself in a long day. The equation changes if you own your own dump truck which would yield cheaper gravel.

 

[JB4310]

They have a more engineered version with several pipe options, and a slew of engineering data on how it works. The consumer version is a one-size fits all sort of thing.

For my project, and where I would need around 100' or so, material cost would be around $500 for the prefab version including some sand, vs $150 for the pipe/geotextile, and plus maybe $300 for gravel. Sure materials would be cheaper old-school, but I could do it myself in a long day. The equation changes if you own your own dump truck which would yield cheaper gravel.

I hear ya, That's why I say it is geared towards homeowners, and it should work just fine.

But they can produce all the engineering data they want, there's not alot of engineers that are gonna specify a sack filled with packing peanuts on a commercial job for permanently installed storm water management infrastructure.

I'm kind of old school, maybe it's the wave of the future. More and more geotextiles are being used and preferred on all types of jobs.
They are especially well suited for ball fields, and they even refer to some products as "aggregate less" drainage (no stone)

So maybe I'm being to critical

JB.

 

[andrewy]

My biggest concern is the thing floating up to the surface when the ground got flooded. Seems like with those peanuts, it would be a risk.

 

[JB4310]

My biggest concern is the thing floating up to the surface when the ground got flooded. Seems like with those peanuts, it would be a risk.

Good point, but you would have to have some cover over it so it should stay down.

JB.

 

[rambler]

Had 20,000 or so feet of tile drain installed on the farm the past 3 years. In heavy yellow clay soil.

Yourround get saturated - the water table is rising above the ground level. _That_ is your problem. French drain dies not solve this, unless you can find a gravel layer that would take all the water you need to drain away. Again, you are _not_ draining only the bit of water you see - you are draining a fair number of gallons from the soil profile to lower the water table.

Steps to make drainage work:

1. Get a permit from the FSA - well here on the farm, they fine & penalize you greatly if you drain a wetland. I suppose those of you in housing areas don't have to give up your assets like us farmers have to, but I know to put up a Walmart or some such, they need to mitigate the wetlands issue.

2. Call the digging hotline number - _very_ important, every state calls it something different, but all have it. You are seriously liabel for messing up gas line, phone line, electric line if you don't do this, can be very spendy if it doesn't kill you....

3. Get some 4 inch perferated black plastic corrigated drain tile. Slots all around it. No way do you want that silly white pipe with one row of large holes on one side. You want the black plastic roll of drain tile with perfs around it.

3.b. In some soils you might need a sock on it. Rarely, but something to consider.

4. Rent a trencher, as you want the drain tile deeper than you are thinking - 2 feet anyhow. Three feet would be better, but you never said how much fall you have to the 'front ditch' and you need to empty into that.

The deeper you put the drain tile, the more area you will be able to drain. You are _not_ just draining the surface water, you are draining the subsoil of excess water. Your ground is totally saturated in that area. You want that tile to work for you all year long, pulling the water table down 2-3 feet, so that when it rains, your ground is healthy & has air and can absorb a rainfall. Then slowly drian out through your tile. You don't need any gravel in it, save your money. If you are real worried about the gravel deal, put 2 pails worth in a column over the tile in the lowest spot. But you won't need it if you set the tile 2-3 feet deep.

You want to drain out the exess water from your soil. The surface water will then take care of itself.

Go deep enough, use the right type of tile, you want slots in all directions not just 'up' or 'down'. Do it right. And forget a french drain, not applicable for your issue.

If you go real shallow, like 10 inches, you will only pull a little surface water off. The rest of your back yard will remain saturated, wet, muddy. That's no good. If you go 3 feet deep, that 4 inch tilw will drain water away from 40-50 feet of each side f it, or a 100 foot wide area. If you go 2 feet deep, it will drain 20-30 feet on each side of it, or a 60 foot wide area.

Dad started draining the potholes on this farm in the 1950's, and I'm still working to get it all right.... I've gained a little experience over the years, at draining soil. You are not draining off the surface, you are draining out the subsoil of excess puddled water within the soil.

--->Paul

 

[JB4310]

Sounds like you've gained alot of experience. I agree with most of what you say. especially about the Pipe types and the filter sock, I rarely recommend filter sock around the pipe. We use filter fabric in and on top of the trench often though. We almost always use corrugated slotted pipe as well.

But there is one critical factor that changes on every job and that is soil type.
When you say go lower to lower the water table in the surrounding soil, that only works with well drained soil types.
Most of the time though when there is surface ponding problems, the soil type is not well drained (obviously) and stone filled trench drains have much less effect on the surrounding area's water table. They will eliminate the ponding but you can have squishy ground 4 feet away from the trench.

That's why on ball fields sometimes they have to cut trenches every 5 feet or so and often will use some type of geo strip drain. as opposed to installing so much pipe and stone that a conventional system would require.

JB.

 

[kg7il]

I have a water level (clear tubes for garden hose extensions).
Don't use it much, but nothing beats it when you don't have line of sight and don't want to deal with tolerence build up.

At the price, why not have another tool in the toolbox.

I have been using the manual dig and follow the water on my last few projects. (sometimes get it started with the FEL; perpendicular to the ditching)

 

[boggen]

Came across this video based on the above info, good info. Was looking to see how to use it for drainage slope.

YouTube - How to Build a Water Level

*looks sad* no food coloring!!! makes it so much easier to see water level.

used water levels. to set filters on pools / ponds before. (pushed pipe through a drain line or skimmer line. to filter area. and was able to make reading that i would other wise never be able to do with any other type of level.

help use water level to figure out foundation hole / basement that was being dug out to get grade both for surrounding land and actual basement level of dirt.

i should of used a water level before quickly setting up a 12 feet diameter 30" high intex pool last night ((needed it quick for some fish)) it has some leans to it. i hope it will fill up half way descently. and not spill over (crosses fingers) on the float ring works on it to hold up the sides. i didn't notice ground level was that un level till 1/4 full of water.

used water level on setting up indoor 300 gallon tank and 3 30 gallon trash can filters for it.

i will most likely use water level to get a better grade on a new lane on this farm.

string levels BAH. i can never get the strings tight enough. or keep the stakes from wiggling loose.

consumer low grade laser levels. i still can not find a descent one with strong enough laser light on it. to see it during entire day on various projects. granted i still have one. it has came in handy. to cast a line up on ceiling. so i can hit 2x4's vs hitting nothing with some screws. and same goes for putting up some paneling.

transits. i honestly do not know how to work one. nor care to spend cash renting a commercial grade one. and don't care to spend cash to buy one. granted i might eventually get one. just to be like a kid in a toy store. but *shrugs*

the few projects that do have distances that a torpedo level with a 1" tube with a bubble in it. will not work on. the few extra minutes working with a water level works good enough and there is know guess work. even with helpers that never done things before. quickly catch on in how to use a water level. it is not like these projects crop up every day. but every couple years if that.

if you were a contractor with a crew of folks. then a transit, or high powered laser level. with a line that can be seen on objects would most likely be well worth it. but backyard DIY'er.... i just can not see the since in paying good sum of money that amounts to almost as much as materials cost. and for me half the time when i do want to know difference i do not have line of sight between two spots i want to know the difference in. and water level works awesome in this regards.

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i would also toss folks off property on certain projects if they didn't know about a water level or how to make one / use one. if i was contracting the work out.