Bumper Vs. Gooseneck Payloads

[cowski]

the only reason to go gooseneck in a light pick up is safety .i am a firefighter that has been to a lot of bumper trailer wrecks but never a gooseneck.2 wrecks stand out for this forum .1/2 ton ford pick up carrying a mf 135 running about 50 hit a bump started fish tailing flipped up side down in a ditch. a 3/4 dodge was carrying a 4610? ford with the anti sway hitch started off the hill started fish tailing ,he ended up in a v but he got it stopped just before he rolled off the cliff.the dodge driver was real experienced, so it could happen to anyone .it is just easier to get in trouble with a bumper pull.i have both kinds they each have their place but if i had only one it would be gooseneck.

 

[Diamondpilot]

the only reason to go gooseneck in a light pick up is safety .i am a firefighter that has been to a lot of bumper trailer wrecks but never a gooseneck.2 wrecks stand out for this forum .1/2 ton ford pick up carrying a mf 135 running about 50 hit a bump started fish tailing flipped up side down in a ditch. a 3/4 dodge was carrying a 4610? ford with the anti sway hitch started off the hill started fish tailing ,he ended up in a v but he got it stopped just before he rolled off the cliff.the dodge driver was real experienced, so it could happen to anyone .it is just easier to get in trouble with a bumper pull.i have both kinds they each have their place but if i had only one it would be gooseneck.

I tow way more than the average person. Right now 200 miles a week and will do that or better till November. I have been doing this for 20 years. 95% has been bumper pull. Not a single accident but now that I say this I am setting myself up.:laughing:

Two things about your statement stands out to me. First I would say there are 25 to 1 BP trailers to GN trailers registered in my state. So pure numbers will dictate more accidents. Second is I would venture to guess in both these accidents the load was not balanced properly or not secure properly. A shifting load can be **** and a un-balanced load worse.

Chris

 

[xtn]

the only reason to go gooseneck in a light pick up is safety .i am a firefighter that has been to a lot of bumper trailer wrecks but never a gooseneck.2 wrecks stand out for this forum .1/2 ton ford pick up carrying a mf 135 running about 50 hit a bump started fish tailing flipped up side down in a ditch. a 3/4 dodge was carrying a 4610? ford with the anti sway hitch started off the hill started fish tailing ,he ended up in a v but he got it stopped just before he rolled off the cliff.the dodge driver was real experienced, so it could happen to anyone .it is just easier to get in trouble with a bumper pull.i have both kinds they each have their place but if i had only one it would be gooseneck.

I have been lead to believe that fish tailing trailers is the result of improper loading by not having the CG forward of the axles. From what little bit I know about physics it makes sense to me. Can anyone confirm or deny?

If true then those accidents should be chalked up to human mistake, not trailer type.

xtn

 

[Duffster]

I have been lead to believe that fish tailing trailers is the result of improper loading by not having the CG forward of the axles. From what little bit I know about physics it makes sense to me. Can anyone confirm or deny?

If true then those accidents should be chalked up to human mistake, not trailer type.

xtn

Sometime it is just because it is not far enough ahead even though it is forward of the center of the axles. In this situation a GN would make a difference.

 

[ovrszd]

I've pulled a bp trailer off and on all my life. Many times I've had the bp trailer throw a fit, swaying, etc. Probably not correctly loaded. Sometimes unavoidable. This has happened often enough that I am very cautious when pulling a bp trailer.

I recently purchased my first gn trailer. I haven't pulled it on any long hauls yet but have done dozens of short runs with a variety of loads. It's never acted like it wanted to "wag" me or take control of our destiny. The only thing I've noticed is that it pulls smoother with the correct load on the tongue, less "slap". But that has never been bad enough for me to stop and move the load, just a minor inconvenience which is corrected the next time I load.

I feel like loading issues are less hazardous with a gn, it's more forgiving. A lot more likely to cause serious incidents with a bp, which is less forgiving.

I still have three bp trailers. Even if my payload will fit on one of the bp trailers I hitch onto the gn trailer. It just feels so much safer.

Lastly I'll throw in this monkey wrench. The gn trailer is sooooo much easier to hitch onto with my Super Duty extended cab short bed truck. :thumbsup:

 

[Dargo]

Lastly I'll throw in this monkey wrench. The gn trailer is sooooo much easier to hitch onto with my Super Duty extended cab short bed truck. :thumbsup:

Sorry, but after having both for decades, I'll respectfully have to disagree with you. Even before I cheated and have the license bracket mount cameras on my dumptruck and 1 ton for my pintle hitch trailers, I can't ever recall not backing directly into the pintle loop first shot. Even with a camera mounted by the rear cargo light it always takes a few tries to get a GN lined up perfectly.

As I said before, add those attributes to the fact that a bumper pull tracks the tow vehicle better and you can see why I no longer own any GN trailers after all these years. No need to worry about people wanting to borrow my trailers either; the lightest one weighs around 7k empty and nobody with a 1/2 ton seems to have a pintle hitch ready; leaving them very little weight they are actually able to haul.

 

[Reg]

Um... yes. If you read carefully you will see that the conditions you call for are excluded by my statement.

xtn

This statement;
"Any trailer axle farther back from the hitch than the hitch is from the rear axle of the towing vehicle is going to track inside to some degree, period."
doesn't jive with "the conditions you call for are excluded by my statement"

I was NOT proposing a hitch ball farther from the truck's rear axle than from the trailer's axle (or axles mid point) - - and in any case that is not how the geometry works (-:
As I said, "Go figure" or "Go do the geometry".
It isn't HARD, but it certainly isn't simple.

 

[Reg]

I have been lead to believe that fish tailing trailers is the result of improper loading by not having the CG forward of the axles. From what little bit I know about physics it makes sense to me. Can anyone confirm or deny?

If true then those accidents should be chalked up to human mistake, not trailer type.

xtn

Trailer sway or fishtailing is indeed a predictable consequence of improper load distribution.
Yes, the C of G needs to be AHEAD of the axle and in the case of a tandem axle trailer it should almost always be ahead of the front axle's center line.
Measure this out some time, i.e. distance from hitch ball to axle (or mid point between axles) then how far back from the coupler the C of G would be to produce the desirable 10 to 15% tongue load.
Yeah, between 90 and 85% of the way back to there (-:
This will almost always be ahead of the front axle's center line on a tandem trailer, even on a very short trailer.

Odd though it may seem - - and to some this sounds like a contradiction, you still want a little bit more load on the REAR axle than on the front one.
FORTUNATELY you get this just about automatically when you set the ball height - with MOST trailers.
I believe the reason that some trailers sway behind one vehicle and not another is often caused by different ball heights, i.e. the family TRUCK squats less than the family SUV (over simplified).

OK that is most of the mere fizzzix.

As to whether trailer type is responsible for accidents or human error...
I could argue it either way;
Yes, humans can do things right and they can do them wrong.
Designs can permit or preclude particular consequences stemming from human errors.
Designs can also "Encourage" certain types of human error.

So, know what you are doing, know how to do it right, know when you have done it wrong and FIX THAT ! (-:

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Sorry, but after having both for decades, I'll respectfully have to disagree with you. Even before I cheated and have the license bracket mount cameras on my dumptruck and 1 ton for my pintle hitch trailers, I can't ever recall not backing directly into the pintle loop first shot. Even with a camera mounted by the rear cargo light it always takes a few tries to get a GN lined up perfectly.

As I said before, add those attributes to the fact that a bumper pull tracks the tow vehicle better and you can see why I no longer own any GN trailers after all these years. No need to worry about people wanting to borrow my trailers either; the lightest one weighs around 7k empty and nobody with a 1/2 ton seems to have a pintle hitch ready; leaving them very little weight they are actually able to haul.

I'm stunned.

110% in agreement.

I've got 3 goose neck flats, 2 bumper pulls. The ONLY reason I hook to one of the goose necks is they're 10' to 15' LONGER than either bumper pull.

I've been an advocate of pintle hitches for ages. Local DOT boys seems to like them too.

Bumper pulls seem MUCH easier to navigate tight traffic because of tracking the tow vehicle better..... With a GOOD bumper pull, and a GOOD (ie HEAVY duty) tow vehicle, bumper pulls aren't a trade off when all is said and done

Borrowing one of my trailers isn't an issue. My wife taught me how to say he!! NO at a very early age.


I recently bought a KW road tractor and a 36' lowboy trailer. The goose necks have done a good bit of "resting" since.


And for the sake of argument, we have AT LEAST a couple, if not more of the trailers on the road every day during spring/summer/fall mowing season. The ONLY on-road accident any of them were ever involved in was one of the goose necks. Driver dragged a Mini Cooper under the trailer for about 20' in a tight corner. That was the result of the trailer NOT tracking behind the tow vehicle. (No, it wasn't me.... )

 

[ovrszd]

Sorry, but after having both for decades, I'll respectfully have to disagree with you. Even before I cheated and have the license bracket mount cameras on my dumptruck and 1 ton for my pintle hitch trailers, I can't ever recall not backing directly into the pintle loop first shot. Even with a camera mounted by the rear cargo light it always takes a few tries to get a GN lined up perfectly.

Dargo you can respectfully disagree all you want. I'm a little disappointed that you think you know more about me hooking up to my trailers than I do. But then maybe that's an example of your arrogance.

When I can lean around in my seat, seeing the ball in my bed and back to my hitch on the gn I never miss. Evidently your backing skills aren't very good using a high dollar camera. :confused2: