Preventing tractor back flip

[Degolyerent]

What is it, can't anyone give a simple answer During the mean time the mud is hardening around my neighbors tractor and all I want to know is hook up short on the chain or hook it up long. Oh heck, I know what's wrong, you guys and gals don't help pull tractors out of mud. That's why no one can answer my straight forward question.

Turn the tractor around and pull it out going backwards with chain hooked to front end

 

[foreman Etexas]

What is it, can't anyone give a simple answer During the mean time the mud is hardening around my neighbors tractor and all I want to know is hook up short on the chain or hook it up long. Oh heck, I know what's wrong, you guys and gals don't help pull tractors out of mud. That's why no one can answer my straight forward question.

Get as close as u can but still leave some room so he dont bump that mahindra when u get him out:thumbsup: I would pull him using the 3 pts lift before I would the loader(puts more strain on front diffs).

 

[IronHog]

Maybe we should put it this way: Until there is absolute certain proof that there is some way to connect a to-be-pulled object to your tractor such that it can not flip over backwards ... everybody should assume it can happen :thumbsup:

I sometimes do semi professional logging with a tractor. Not what most of the people here call logging but actual harvesting of large saw timber skidded with the tractor. A drag can weigh up to two tons.

The tractor has a standard, but reinforced three point hitch using tongs to drag attached to a logging rig (metal frame that looks like one of those little fast hook up things on small CUTS). The pull is both behind and above the rear axle.

And after riding hundreds of wheelies on a tractor I can tell you it would take a complete fool on an operator to flip one (with any weight forward) backwards.

If you are running right once the front end gets so high you start to lose traction or the tractor starts to stall (giving you time to back off or hit the clutch).......to flip one over you'd need to get in a rather low gear, have plenty of traction (might even need a diff lock), be hooked to a static object, and throttle that thing over in a violent fashion........

 

[idaho2]

Now we're getting the answers that alot of viewers and some posters have been waiting for.
I've pulled out alot of different types of machinery, vehicles and tractors over the years from mud to snow banks. Everything at the moment is dependent upon the siuation at the time. Saw how this thread was going nowhere with the "logic, etc" so I posted the question and we finally have some common sense answers.

Thanks, IronHog, foreman Etexas and Degolyerent.

 

[Egon]

If confused draw a force vector diagram around the centre of the rear axle.

If that doesn't work block the rear wheels so they can't move and apply the power. Don't even need a load on the back end.:thumbsup:

 

[JoeL4330]

I never had any classes in this stuff, but I am confused by the statement:

"If your tractor rares up because the tires are frozen to the ground, you would have to be backing up"​

Look at the tractor from, say, the "driver's" side: for the tractor to move forward, the wheels would turn counter-clockwise (rotor) relative to the axle housing (and the rest of the tractor, stator). If sufficient torque were applied to the wheels but they were immovable, then the tractor (now the rotor) would rotate clockwise (raise up) with respect to the wheel (now the stator). [of course, viewed from the passenger side, trying to go forward, the wheel wants to turn clockwise and/or the tractor wants to turn counter-clockwise]

So, it seems to me, that trying to go forward in the wheels-frozen situation is what would raise up the front of the tractor ...no? not "backing up"

 

[k0ua]

I never had any classes in this stuff, but I am confused by the statement:

"If your tractor rares up because the tires are frozen to the ground, you would have to be backing up"​

Look at the tractor from, say, the "driver's" side: for the tractor to move forward, the wheels would turn counter-clockwise (rotor) relative to the axle housing (and the rest of the tractor, stator). If sufficient torque were applied to the wheels but they were immovable, then the tractor (now the rotor) would rotate clockwise (raise up) with respect to the wheel (now the stator). [of course, viewed from the passenger side, trying to go forward, the wheel wants to turn clockwise and/or the tractor wants to turn counter-clockwise]

So, it seems to me, that trying to go forward in the wheels-frozen situation is what would raise up the front of the tractor ...no? not "backing up"

I agree with you, I posted the original post about the tires frozen to the ground, again I have no first hand experience, having never done it or seen it, but I have read about it and it seems plausible to me. The ring gear would be immovable, and the pinion would climb it. Just like a "funny car" with soft slicks with a good hookup to the asphalt, for some milliseconds the tire does not want to spin and a lot of torque is applied to the pinion/ring gear and the pinion climbs the relatively immobile ring gear and brings the front end of the car up off of the ground. Of course the tires eventually slip and spin and the front comes down, usually, of course the whellie bars on the back prevent it from going all the way over. That is my story and I am "sticking":laughing: to it.

James K0UA

 

[Short Game]

Back in the day, I wonder how many trying-to-be bikers rode those insane Kawasaki three cylinder 2-strokes right out from under their butts? You could do it in about any gear if you shifted at the top of the power band.

Well, if I really want to pull something tough, I put on my box blade with the 12,000 pound Warn winch on it. I chain my front end to something solid and pull with the winch. All four wheels tend to stay on the ground. Doing my part to prevent a back flip.

 

[orezok]

Back in the day, I wonder how many trying-to-be bikers rode those insane Kawasaki three cylinder 2-strokes right out from under their butts? You could do it in about any gear if you shifted at the top of the power band.

Well, if I really want to pull something tough, I put on my box blade with the 12,000 pound Warn winch on it. I chain my front end to something solid and pull with the winch. All four wheels tend to stay on the ground. Doing my part to prevent a back flip.

I still have a 75 Kawasaki H2 triple. I still remember it as being one of the nastiest handling bikes ever made. Yes you could carry the front wheel in any gear just from the torque.

It's on my list of things to restore when I retire. It's a 100% complete bike and I bought many NOS parts for it years ago.

 

[Reg]

Yes of course you're right. Depending upon the height of the draw bar, how far back it is from the rear wheel center line, and the angle the chain is at when pulled tight, there is some point at which an equilibrium must be reached. So technically the tractor won't flip over on it's back completely.

That is... unless you start figuring in momentum and materials elasticity. I mean what happens if the equilibrium point is reached while 2000 lbs of tractor front end is rotating up with some speed?

xtn

How far back it is doesn't matter, how long it is and the arc its end describes as the front of the tractor rises DOES matter.
I may have made the "mistake" of assuming that the O/P would use an appropriate draw bar for the tractor in question, i.e. one that would get down to ground level WAY before the tractor gets the front wheels too far off the ground.

Sure, I can pretend that the draw bar is about as stiff as a loaf of bread and that the chain is in fact a bungie cord.

With a jerk ... ? maybe you can get the answer you WANT, but I think it depends where you run out of slack.
For as long as you have slack the chain is essentially NOT THERE, i.e. that is a different experiment, One might as well ask "can tractors wheelie ?" the answer to which is "YES".

As posed by the O/P the draw bar can be assumed to have unlimited bend resistance and the chain just doesn't "give".
This is close to reality, draw bars can be bent, but not from straight pulling - at least I've never seen it happen from JUST pulling.

Though I have to admit that some folk use stretchy nylon rope where they SHOULD be using chain (-: