diesel for generator

[timswi]

I do not understand why you guy install a small 6 or 10 circuit transfer switch? :confused2: You can get a 200 amp switch for about the same money and put a large twist lock on it. If you watch what you run you are good to go even with a small generator. If you are worried about turning on to much just flip off the breakers you do not need in your main panel as I do. Only ones I turn off with my 200 amp switch is my AC unit, Hot Tub, and Clothes Dryer.

My generator is only 8,550 watts but it does just fine. Nice part is if I ever buy or borrow a bigger generator I am all set.

I got mine on sale for about $250 using a 20% off coupon.
200 Amp Transfer Switch - Great Deals on 200 Amp Transfer Switches at Harbor Freight

Chris

That's what I do...Mine's 8500/10K and can run the survival stuff with no problem.

Have to cycle the breakers on the well and hot water tank. Hot tub, dryer, heat pump/electric furnace breakers get turned off. Better than living in the dark.

 

[Diamondpilot]

That's what I do...Mine's 8500/10K and can run the survival stuff with no problem.

Have to cycle the breakers on the well and hot water tank. Hot tub, dryer, heat pump/electric furnace breakers get turned off. Better than living in the dark.

I have propane heat and hot water so I am lucky on that front. My dryer is electric and so is my stove. We had no problem running the stove with all the other stuff going and we even ran the dry at night when we had everything else off for the night. Had to do it during our 8 day outage because we had a 2 month old little girl who made lots of dirty laundry.

Wife laughed at me for buying the genny and setting up the switch. She said it was the biggest waste of $1000 she had ever seen. We already had a Honda 2000 genny but I had a gut feeling we would need it. Sure enough 6 months later the ice storm hit. Some were without power for 3 weeks. We were lucky and only out 8 days. About day 3 she told me I was a genius after seeing how others were struggling.

One last thing to think about is gen security. I chained mine to the propane deck the first year but the next spring I poured a 3'x5' slab with a rebarb ring in one corner. I got a nice heavy duty bike lock, coated cable type. Generators were getting stolen right and left. I know one lady who was sleeping and she heard the ceiling fan shut off. She woke up and still heard the genny running and she woke her husband. He looked at his watch and said it was 5 am and they would be fine for a few hours till they had to get up for work. When he went out to check why the power went off the genny was gone off the back deck and a POS push mower was sitting in its place running. Pretty smart crooks, figured the sound was about the same and most would not notice till its too late.

Also be careful of genny placement. I seen some idiots with them in the garage, ect. Make sure you have a Carbon Monoxide Detector in your home. I installed 2, one downstairs on the wall near the genny and another in the hall near the bed rooms.

Where I poured my slab I installed 2 hooks on the house 6' apart. They are about 8' up. I have a blue tarp that hooks in each of the hooks then I have 2 tent stakes and 2 bungee cords that I simply drive in the lawn and hook the other end to. Makes a nice shed roof to keep the weather off it.

My "genny kit" contains the genny, fuel that is rotated out every 6 months, tarp, bungee cords, tent stakes, bike lock, and of course the custom cord made up to run from the genny to the large twist lock on the side of the house.

Chris

 

[Dargo]

Probably the same reason my stepfather got a 25kw genny for his house when it's just him and my mom.. when all I needed for my farm was a 13kw genny..


soundguy

After my daughter had two brain surgeries in the last year I pretty well need everything to remain the same if our power goes out; which is all too frequent. My 400 amp service rated automatic transfer switch and 65000kW Yanmar turbo diesel generator works just fine. Unless it's around 100 degrees outside and I need all 13 ton of A/C units running, it just pretty well idles along using no more diesel than a 20000kW generator would since the 20kW would be running at 3/4 capacity even without all the A/C units on.

We lost power for around 3 weeks a couple years ago after an ice storm and that sucked. We lost power for almost a week a few months ago after a tornado. My little 8500kW and 6500kW generators were just enough for us to survive and not leave or go live in our coach. Perhaps 30 years ago I would have been content with 'just getting by'. Now I need to make sure all is fine if I'm gone on a business trip (wife has to do nothing except possibly carry the transfer fuel tank out to the generator with the track loader after about 5 or 6 days - which I can't see having to happen unless I'm gone gone) and my wife is alone with the kids. Besides, my idea of camping used to be a tent and a couple MRE's. Now camping is in a 40' class A diesel pusher motor coach. Funny how things change over time.

 

[90cummins]

Diamondpilot
Many of the people on TractorBynet myself included are quite innovative and capable of improvising for most situations.
We need to remember that most people do not have our technical capabilities and knowledge (what some would consider common sense).
I have on hand 2 Generac XL4000 generators along with a Generac 25KW pto generator and a 5000 watt diesel.
All this started with the XL4000 preparing for Y2K remember that? Well it never stopped.
Anyways; I back feed my entire house like yourself from my 4000 watt generator with no problems (I have gas hot water & cooking with oil & wood heat and a well) but I monitor my power consumption as silly as it may sound by watching the lights and listening to the appliances, I also have a voltmeter on hand.
My 25kw pto generator goes into an Onan 200 amp 3 phase transfer switch (which was free).

I chose 4000 watts because it will support my house without being overloaded in the winter and not bankrupt me during extended outages.
Note; if the bathroom heater is turned on (2000 watts) it will overload the generator (if the fridge, freezer, furnace or other appliances are operating) causing low voltage which can damage everything in operation including the generator so extreme vigilance is required.

I understand the consequences of overloading where most people may not that is why per electrical code you either have a generator that will support the entire house assuming all lights & appliances are operation (unrealistic) or install a transfer switch with 6 or 10 circuits to power your essential items and size your generator to that load.
People need to be realistic when calculate their actual electrical needs when they select a generator otherwise it may cost $30~60 a day just keep the lights on (to large) or unable to power your essential heat, cooking, fridge and water (to small).

Tim

 

[Dargo]

Anyways; I back feed my entire house like yourself from my 4000 watt generator with no problems (I have gas hot water & cooking with oil & wood heat and a well) but I monitor my power consumption as silly as it may sound by watching the lights and listening to the appliances, I also have a voltmeter on hand.
My 25kw pto generator goes into an Onan 200 amp 3 phase transfer switch (which was free).


Tim

Do you pull your meter when you do this very dangerous act? You do know that simply turning off the main breaker, the neutral remains connected. In a perfect setup this by itself is not a big deal, but an incorrectly wired cord and plug (usually a cord and two plugs) could put 120 volts on the power company neutral. Due to all the outages my area has had lately, two linemen have been killed due to fools who think they are qualified electricians because they can wire up a simple outlet.

According to each electrician I had out to give me estimates for installing my transfer switch per code, back feeding with a portable generator now is a minimum of a $10k fine and a minimum of 90 days in jail. Then, if you do actually pull your meter, that too is illegal unless you have the power company come and do so since that is their equipment and you are not allowed to touch it. I personally look at 'code' as a minimum way of doing things; not some far fetched expensive way that is not needed.

 

[90cummins]

I do not pull the meter.
I知 aware of the possibility of the neutral being hot due to incorrect wiring.
I made my own cords and know that they are properly wired, I also ground the generator to the service to eliminate the possibility of stray current finding me when I touch the operating the generator.
I also have two main disconnects the first is the original (old) remote main breaker and the main on a new 200 amp service.


Tim

 

[dlabrie]

I do not understand why you guy install a small 6 or 10 circuit transfer switch? :confused2: You can get a 200 amp switch for about the same money and put a large twist lock on it.

I guess the reason I did it this way is that the Reliance Control transfer switch was something I felt comfortable installing. The instructions are very clear and they also have a step-by-step video series to guide you. I have everything I need for an extended power outage and I don't have to worry about sending power out to the linemen. I called the electric co. and they told me that with this system, they didn't need to come out and check the installation.

I am sure there are many ways to do this, this way worked for me.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I guess the reason I did it this way is that the Reliance Control transfer switch was something I felt comfortable installing. The instructions are very clear and they also have a step-by-step video series to guide you. I have everything I need for an extended power outage and I don't have to worry about sending power out to the linemen. I called the electric co. and they told me that with this system, they didn't need to come out and check the installation.

I am sure there are many ways to do this, this way worked for me.

Sorry if I sounded harsh. Reason this bugs me is my FIL did just this on a new home. He then wanted to borrow my genny in a power outage and it was too big for his panel rated at only 20 or 30 amps? Can not remember. Long story short, he got the same genny as me and we put in a 200 amp disconnect and end result was more money spent in the long run.

If it works for you and you are content they you and you are happy I am happy. You did the safe thing and used quality panel so have piece of mind.

I will not lie, I have back-fed myself. I also made up a adapter plug so my father and sister can use my genny through a dry plug if needed. If that is the case I will be on hand and will pull the meter and deal with the power company when it comes time. I would rather pay a $75 service fee to have the meter reset then get someone killed.

Chris

 

[Dargo]

I do not pull the meter.
I知 aware of the possibility of the neutral being hot due to incorrect wiring.
I made my own cords and know that they are properly wired, I also ground the generator to the service to eliminate the possibility of stray current finding me when I touch the operating the generator.
I also have two main disconnects the first is the original (old) remote main breaker and the main on a new 200 amp service.


Tim

I fail to comprehend why anyone would spend their hard earned money on a generator and then skip perhaps the most important part of backup power; a transfer switch. I seem to relate that to kids spending 10 grand on a stereo and putting it in a $200 car; it just doesn't make sense and in the case of the generator issue, it's illegal, period. I won't have anything to do with someone illegally attaching a generator to their home. There are laws and codes for a reason.

People can debate the size of generator, type of power of a generator, style of generator etc., but there is no debate when it comes to how to hook up a generator to your home. I can find enough trouble without intentionally violating codes and regulations in place for my safety as well as the safety of others.

 

[JB4310]

I do not understand why you guy install a small 6 or 10 circuit transfer switch? :confused2: You can get a 200 amp switch for about the same money and put a large twist lock on it. If you watch what you run you are good to go even with a small generator. If you are worried about turning on to much just flip off the breakers you do not need in your main panel as I do. Only ones I turn off with my 200 amp switch is my AC unit, Hot Tub, and Clothes Dryer.

My generator is only 8,550 watts but it does just fine. Nice part is if I ever buy or borrow a bigger generator I am all set.

I got mine on sale for about $250 using a 20% off coupon.
200 Amp Transfer Switch - Great Deals on 200 Amp Transfer Switches at Harbor Freight

Chris

To me this is the best way to go, (the double throw switch). not as easy to install for the home owner as the multi circuit transfer switch, but gives you much more versatility, especially like you say, future growth.

I saw those at HF and was a little disappointed in the quality, but for the price compared to domestic made ones, it is cheaper than say a 10 circuit transfer switch. I'm sure they must meet the required standards.

I've been looking to get one myself, the best price I found was $550.00 for a used one!! (Square D brand) or $800. for a new Siemans.

You (or anyone else) should consider getting one of these to help balance your load, especially when using a smaller genny than the panel can handle. I have one installed but have not tried it out yet.
http://www.emergencypower.com/parts-accessories/generator-power-meter-boxes
Only problem is the analog meters are kinda small.

JB.

 

[Soundguy]

reminds me when my dad got a big military diesel genny that came on a trailer.. I don't recall the KW on it.. but it was about the size of 2 green box 3yd dumpsters side by side.

lotda power... lotsa noise.. big fuel tank.

If i'm not home, there won't be any backup power. My wife is the kind of woman that thinks 'putting gas in her car' means telling me she is low.

I'm sure she is not aware that there is a hood latch switch in the driver compartment of her vehicle either, and that tires automatically air themselves..

without uninterupted fuel, an auto setup would be useless for us.. and no LP/prop service out here...

soundguy

After my daughter had two brain surgeries in the last year I pretty well need everything to remain the same if our power goes out; which is all too frequent. My 400 amp service rated automatic transfer switch and 65000kW Yanmar turbo diesel generator works just fine. Unless it's around 100 degrees outside and I need all 13 ton of A/C units running, it just pretty well idles along using no more diesel than a 20000kW generator would since the 20kW would be running at 3/4 capacity even without all the A/C units on.

We lost power for around 3 weeks a couple years ago after an ice storm and that sucked. We lost power for almost a week a few months ago after a tornado. My little 8500kW and 6500kW generators were just enough for us to survive and not leave or go live in our coach. Perhaps 30 years ago I would have been content with 'just getting by'. Now I need to make sure all is fine if I'm gone on a business trip (wife has to do nothing except possibly carry the transfer fuel tank out to the generator with the track loader after about 5 or 6 days - which I can't see having to happen unless I'm gone gone) and my wife is alone with the kids. Besides, my idea of camping used to be a tent and a couple MRE's. Now camping is in a 40' class A diesel pusher motor coach. Funny how things change over time.

 

[Coyote machine]

I too put in a transfer switch, I believe it was a ten circuit switch, and hooked up a 6.5kW used Craftsman gas run genny for the inevitable end of the world as we knew it, prior to Y2K:laughing:
Boom- nothing!
Recently had a 1000 gallon propane underground tank installed, with a 20kW B&S generator, a whole house transfer switch, AND a load shedding switch to drop and reintroduce big loads sequentially as the loads are read by the switch. I've got over 300 breakers on numerous panels in the house and the propane is also supplied to my barn and a bunch of additional breakers there.
It works flawlessly, and got lots of use last winter in storms and extended outages. I did a lot of research before this install and used my on call master electrician to wire it all up.
Between the wire, underground trenches from tank to generator, to house, to barn etc. it cost a large fortune, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
It self tests, won't start if there is low oil shows a ready to run lite in the pantry, and a running condition and error lites too.
Some flatlander idiot up the road from me left their cabin's propane fed home generator connected after contacting the propane company about a leak, they left the cabin with the propane still turned on. Eventually the power went out and the generator kicked on, sparked the leaking fuel source and burned the cabin to the ground while backfeeding the line. By the time the fire dept found the cabin it was toast. It only got called in due to guys working next door seeing the flames.

 

[timswi]

I fail to comprehend why anyone would spend their hard earned money on a generator and then skip perhaps the most important part of backup power; a transfer switch. I seem to relate that to kids spending 10 grand on a stereo and putting it in a $200 car; it just doesn't make sense and in the case of the generator issue, it's illegal, period. I won't have anything to do with someone illegally attaching a generator to their home. There are laws and codes for a reason.

People can debate the size of generator, type of power of a generator, style of generator etc., but there is no debate when it comes to how to hook up a generator to your home. I can find enough trouble without intentionally violating codes and regulations in place for my safety as well as the safety of others.

We were without power for 7 days. Everyone one was backfeeding (I'm not encouraging that, by the way)..The power company just nicely told everyone to shut off their generators and that was it. Not fines or jail time here.

I'm going to install a transfer switch to deal with this...If I was backfeeding at 220, the generator would stall. Saw someone try that without killing the main...He was trying to power the entire neighborhood, the generator wouldn't even start.

Again...I'm not encouraging backfeeding, it can be dangerous.

 

[Diamondpilot]

To me this is the best way to go, (the double throw switch). not as easy to install for the home owner as the multi circuit transfer switch, but gives you much more versatility, especially like you say, future growth.

I saw those at HF and was a little disappointed in the quality, but for the price compared to domestic made ones, it is cheaper than say a 10 circuit transfer switch. I'm sure they must meet the required standards.

I've been looking to get one myself, the best price I found was $550.00 for a used one!! (Square D brand) or $800. for a new Siemans.

You (or anyone else) should consider getting one of these to help balance your load, especially when using a smaller genny than the panel can handle. I have one installed but have not tried it out yet.
Generatror Power Meter Boxes
Only problem is the analog meters are kinda small.

JB.

The one I got is good quality and made by Cutler Hammer which is made in US I believe. They are part of the Eaton group.

Chris

 

[dlabrie]

Well the power went out 1/2 hour ago and I am up and running.

Plugged in the generator, started her up, flipped the transfer switches and I am in business.

Yeah!

 

[Qapla]

Back-feeding used to be a problem around here. Then the electric company enacted rules for their linemen that "if it isn't grounded, it isn't dead". They will not even begin work on a line until, after they pull the switch, they connect all lines to ground. They have not had any instances of injured linesmen. However, they have shorted out a number of homeowner generators that were improperly connected.

Seems when they ground all their lines properly, any generators feeding those lines are cooked and quit feeding the power company lines.

 

[90cummins]

Back-feeding used to be a problem around here. Then the electric company enacted rules for their linemen that "if it isn't grounded, it isn't dead". They will not even begin work on a line until, after they pull the switch, they connect all lines to ground. They have not had any instances of injured linesmen. However, they have shorted out a number of homeowner generators that were improperly connected.

Seems when they ground all their lines properly, any generators feeding those lines are cooked and quit feeding the power company lines.

Qapla what switch are you referring too?

 

[JB4310]

All this talk about backfeeding the grid is interesting, I'm sure it does happen but probably not as often as some have worried about here.

For a lineman to get hurt, a few things would have to happen, first a major mistake by the generator operator. this is very likely with the flood of generators on the market. Second the generator would have to keep running, if connected to the grid, 99% of the time the genny is gonna pop when it tries powering the grid. In other threads it has been brought up, that the power going thru a transformer will step up voltage, so of course in some cases the power will go out to the lines some distance, especially in a rural area I would think.

The biggest mistake would have to be by the linesman for assuming a line was truly dead. Not trying to diminish the threat, it must be very hectic for the linesmen, knowing how many generators are out there now. But there can be no way they can ever assume a line is not energized.

That has to be the fail-safe measure, it's not gonna come from the consumers.
They have to have the loaded gun mentality at all times.

Also back-feeding the neutral was mentioned, I don't know how that is avoided even with the transfer switches etc, or even pulling the meter. Do those methods disconnect the neutral? I'm not saying it doesn't, just trying to learn.

JB

 

[timswi]

All this talk about backfeeding the grid is interesting, I'm sure it does happen but probably not as often as some have worried about here.

For a lineman to get hurt, a few things would have to happen, first a major mistake by the generator operator. this is very likely with the flood of generators on the market. Second the generator would have to keep running, if connected to the grid, 99% of the time the genny is gonna pop when it tries powering the grid. In other threads it has been brought up, that the power going thru a transformer will step up voltage, so of course in some cases the power will go out to the lines some distance, especially in a rural area I would think.

The biggest mistake would have to be by the linesman for assuming a line was truly dead. Not trying to diminish the threat, it must be very hectic for the linesmen, knowing how many generators are out there now. But there can be no way they can ever assume a line is not energized.

That has to be the fail-safe measure, it's not gonna come from the consumers.
They have to have the loaded gun mentality at all times.

Also back-feeding the neutral was mentioned, I don't know how that is avoided even with the transfer switches etc, or even pulling the meter. Do those methods disconnect the neutral? I'm not saying it doesn't, just trying to learn.

JB

At least on my meter, pulling it completely seperates the neutral and hot legs from the panel connection....An arc could happen I guess, but they are mechanically seperated.

 

[Coyote machine]

Qapla what switch are you referring too?

You know- the big switch behind the curtain, at the Emerald City!
Click your heels twice Dorothy! You'll be back in Kansas before you know it!:laughing:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Actually it's the switch on the current bush, just north of here.