110V off 220V circuit

[hayden]

So I am not trying to be argumentative, but what no one has answered is why. I know there is a good reason but I have yet to understand it.

In the box white and copper. (neutral and ground) are tied to the same spot. Yes there are two different terminal strips but the both are attached to the wire leading to the grounding rod.

So if there is a fault with an incorrect 2 wire 110 hookup(meaning neutral and ground on the same wire) what is the danger. If hot where to contact neutral the current would still ind up at the ground in the box.

All the best

Carl

What your are suggesting will work, and is why it's so tempting, but it's dangerous.

As someone else mentioned, wiring is set up so it takes two faults to kill you. If you use the ground for your neutral then you are down to one fault before you die.

- If the ground gets disconnected in the right place then every outlet, water pipe, switch plate, and appliance can kill you.

- If the next electrician working on your wiring trying to figure out what you did disconnects a ground as a test, he dies.

- Ground wires are typically one size smaller than the main conductors. Using it as a ground can overload the wire and crate a fire hazard.

It's also likely to raise **** with ground fault breakers.

It's simple to say it's in violation of NEC code, which makes it in violation of every building code I'm aware of. And the NEC code is actually very well thought out and takes real-world issues and faults into consideration. It's well worth following even if you find building codes objectionable.

 

[zanfirico]

Electricity is dangerous and please be careful. If you need light, you can always go and get some 220v lightbulbs. You may have to go online, but they're out there.

 

[dieselscout80]

Electricity is dangerous and please be careful. If you need light, you can always go and get some 220v lightbulbs. You may have to go online, but they're out there.

Interesting thought and that would let me postpone this project till I was ready to fix it right which how I want to do thanks.

 

[Travelover]

Electricity is dangerous and please be careful. If you need light, you can always go and get some 220v lightbulbs. You may have to go online, but they're out there.

Good point. I think they might have a few in Europe and South America.

 

[Travelover]

Electricity is dangerous and please be careful. If you need light, you can always go and get some 220v lightbulbs. You may have to go online, but they're out there.

You could also wire two 110v bulbs in series.......oh never mind...........

 

[woodlandfarms]

Hayden and Bob, and everyone who put up the codes, thank you for your time. I get it now. While the circuit will work, and worked fine in the 50's, it is a dangerous method not having a double fault. I appreciate the breakdown / simplification on this.

Now let me confuse the whole situation. Somewhere I read that if I put a GFI at the head of this circuit, then the using this older system would be code. Meaning that you could use a hot and nuetral only to all circuits beyond the GFI switch and not need the ground beyond.

Thoughts?

 

[grsthegreat]

Hayden and Bob, and everyone who put up the codes, thank you for your time. I get it now. While the circuit will work, and worked fine in the 50's, it is a dangerous method not having a double fault. I appreciate the breakdown / simplification on this.

Now let me confuse the whole situation. Somewhere I read that if I put a GFI at the head of this circuit, then the using this older system would be code. Meaning that you could use a hot and neutral only to all circuits beyond the GFI switch and not need the ground beyond.

Thoughts?

By code the only way to add a 3 prong outlet to a 2 wire ungrounded system is to use a GFCI outlet. Again, your doing alot of stuff to do a temporary repair job. Your still playing around with 220 circuit. If you insist on doing this, id just take one leg off the 220 and land it on the neutral bus then replace the 220 receptacle with a 120 style and land the other wire in the panel to a single pole 120 breaker and call it good. Label the black wire you put onto neutral with white tape.

 

[hayden]

Now let me confuse the whole situation. Somewhere I read that if I put a GFI at the head of this circuit, then the using this older system would be code. Meaning that you could use a hot and nuetral only to all circuits beyond the GFI switch and not need the ground beyond.

Thoughts?

As a refresher, I think you have an abandoned 220V line to an old well that you would like to re-purpose for 110V? Does the line have a separate ground conductor (usually bare wire) in addition to the two main conductors, or is there no ground conductor?

You have to accomplish two things. First is to get from 220V to 110V, and the second is to do it with a proper ground. How you proceed will depend on a clear understanding of what you have to work with.

Happy to help if you can tell me how many conductors are in the cable, and what colors they are (if you can tell). Maybe even snap a picture? Also, if you can see the marking on the conductors it will tell you what gauge wire you have. It's probably #10.

Let us know.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Well, I have hijacked this thread a bit. For the original poster it was an interior ac 220 that he wanted to split I believe.

As for me it is a 2 wire to a pole from the outdoor fuse box (manufactured homes in our area are required by code to have two breaker boxes, one outside at the meter, one inside. I guess these things go up so fast that no fireman wants to go in to turn off the breakers).

I was wanting to put out 2 30 amp 110 outlets using the existing 2 wire (Black, White Ground) but did not understand the need for a backup safety. It was to provide juice to my inlaws camper when they come to visit (sometimes 2 campers show up).

So, yeah, I will just go with a single 30 amp leg using the proper wiring technique.

Carl

 

[grsthegreat]

Well, I have hijacked this thread a bit. For the original poster it was an interior ac 220 that he wanted to split I believe.

As for me it is a 2 wire to a pole from the outdoor fuse box (manufactured homes in our area are required by code to have two breaker boxes, one outside at the meter, one inside. I guess these things go up so fast that no fireman wants to go in to turn off the breakers).

I was wanting to put out 2 30 amp 110 outlets using the existing 2 wire (Black, White Ground) but did not understand the need for a backup safety. It was to provide juice to my inlaws camper when they come to visit (sometimes 2 campers show up).

So, yeah, I will just go with a single 30 amp leg using the proper wiring technique.

Carl

You really do need to run 3 separate wires. They can be run overhead and are called messanger wires. They come in all sizes but i believe #10 is the smallest.