Water/Diesel Questions

[hillbilly rick]

I noticed about a half of inch of water in my separator yesterday. I'm not sure how long it had been there - I'm still learning about diesel and tractors. I have just started using Power Service (white bottle). Most of the fuel in the tractor is treated. I have a couple of questions.

Should I change the fuel filter with that much water in the separator? I drained the water.

When changing the fuel filter, should you run the tractor after closing the shutoff valve until it quits to burn the leftover fuel, or is that bad for the engine?

I know you are supposed to keep the tank full to minimize condensation. Is that also true with a 5 gallon can? It is hard to keep both full. What is the best way to keep any water in the can out of the tractor - other than not using the can?

The building I store the tractor in is a damp area. This might be a cause of the problem. I do not have a better choice to park everything unless I keep it outside. I put 35 hours on it since May. I normally use it a little over an hour at a time. Does this usage pattern lead to condensation?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

1/2 inch does not sound like a problem unless you are getting that much regularly. It means the separator worked like it is supposed to. Check your 5-gallon container to see if it has water in the bottom. If so, drain and replace all of the fuel in the can.

You sometimes get water from the station where you buy diesel, so check your container after each purchase. If that happens, they have a bad system so go somewhere else. I prefer the heavy traffic truck stops for diesel purchases because their fuel is usually fresh.

You will hear different opinions about using a dispersant in diesel because then the water runs through the engine combustion rather than being trapped by the separator. I don't use additives, but that doesn't mean anything. Others here may have better info on additives.

 

[Qapla]

...When changing the fuel filter, should you run the tractor after closing the shutoff valve until it quits to burn the leftover fuel, or is that bad for the engine?

It is usually never a good idea to run the tractor "out of fuel" since it can cause the injectors to lose their prime. Re-priming some fuel injectors can be a real nightmare.

If the tractor is running just fine and not sputtering due to the water, just clean the filter and replace the cartridge if it is paper. The tractor should be just fine.

Make sure you clean your cans out good. If I am concerned about water in the cans, I will let them sit open where they are protected from rain and dew for a few days and let them completely dry out. Then I know there is no water in them on my end. If after filling them up I have water ... I find another station to buy my diesel.

 

[Gary Fowler]

No real fact study basis for this, just personal observation, but I think the plastic cans sweat less than metal. I have never found water in my plastic fuel cans that I use for gasoline, but I used to find water in the old metal cans all the time. I only use the pure gasoline with no ethanol so I know it isnt because the alcohol dissolves it. Any one have the same thoughts about that.

 

[Soundguy]

if you run out of diesel, then you get to learn how to bleed one.

once is usually enough

 

[Skyco]

A can that is properly sealed will not get condensation in it.
A vented container will.
If cans are getting water in them then check the cap, or buy different better cans.

To avoid getting water into a fuel tank use the Mr. Funnel, works great.
I've even pumped water contaminated fuel out, run it through the Mr. Funnel then put it back in.

 

[JimRB]

Home is a followup to Skyco's post. I never heard of Mr Funnel but it looks like something I might buy.

 

[hillbilly rick]

if you run out of diesel, then you get to learn how to bleed one.

once is usually enough

Mine is supposed to be self bleeding, but I don't think I will intentionally test it. I was just trying to minimize the mess. It is good to know that I should not get condensation in the "can". How does condensation get into a fuel tank? I know it does, but I don't know what path the moisture takes to get there.

 

[MHarryE]

In the fuel tank- as fuel is used it is replaced with air. Air contains the moisture, and the hot, humid air will have moisture condense out when it hits cool fuel. Sitting through a winter in a humid areA is especially bad as the fuel stays the same, but old air is pushed out as it warms in the day and new air with a fresh load of moisture is drawn in every night. The fuel keeps getting a higher water content. The worst places are humid areas close to seas and oceans. I had the benefit of being able to look at worldwide warranty data and damage due to water in the fuel was worst in the SE USA. AZ seldom see a problem. united Arab Emirates, Oman, Bahrain are really bad because of being on the Persian Gulf, having temps where the air soaks up a lot of moisture, and it can cool down a lot at night. Some of them can find a good (actually bad) amount of water to drain from their separator every day. I've seen dual separators mounted on some machines with fuel injection pumps particularly sensitive to water although no pumps like any water going through them.

 

[Skyco]

How does condensation get into a fuel tank? I know it does, but I don't know what path the moisture takes to get there.

MHArryE explained the process well.
As for how it actually gets in- Through the cap usually. Most have a vent built in. Either that or in the case of my diesel pickup, there is a 1/4" vent line running out of the top of the tank, and tucked up on the frame.

On my dirt bikes and ATV there is a hose attached to the cap for venting. I've often considered making some sort of silica gel canister to place in line to grab the moisture in the air.

 

[hillbilly rick]

Thanks for the info. I did not think the combustion air would make it to the fuel tank.

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the info. I did not think the combustion air would make it to the fuel tank.

i don't believe anyone said it would unless i missed it??

soundguy

 

[hillbilly rick]

No, that is the only way I was thinking air could possibly get to the tank. I was not thinking about a vent as a possible route.

 

[LBrown59]

1* What is the best way to keep any water in the can out of the tractor ?

If your 5-gallon container has water in the bottom.
2*Drain and replace all of the fuel in the can.
3*I prefer the heavy traffic truck stops for diesel purchases because their fuel is usually fresh.

4*To avoid getting water into a fuel tank use the Mr. Funnel, works great.
5*I've even pumped water contaminated fuel out, run it through the Mr. Funnel then put it back in.

6*I never heard of Mr Funnel but it looks like something I might buy.

1*
a*Don't pour out of the can into the tractor .
b*Pour out of the can into a MR Funnel.
c*My favorites = > This one filters the fuel twice before the fuel ever enters the tractor tank .

This one is even better as it filters the fuel 3 times before the fuel ever enters the tractor tank .

2*Don't drain it /filter and use it.{ see 1*}
3*Mine comes from a bulk plant ; can't get much fresher than that and i save 30 to 50 cents a gallon .
4*That's what I used to untill built this .

5*You can do the same with something like this .
No need to throw expensive fuel away just because of a water issue.
6*I still have mine and use it occasionaly .

 

[me0418840987]

The MR Funnel works really well, I have the large single filter unit, and the extra large double filter unit. Have taken old crap watered gas from cars that I scrap. and run it thru the filter funnel, takes out all of the moisture, and solid particles. I can the recycle the gas into my vehicles. May seem expensive, but if you can save 25 gallons of gas for reuse, it has more than paid for itself.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I had an old Alaskan bush pilot many years ago, that he used to filter his gasoline through a Chamois cloth to take out trash and water from fuel in the bush. I never tried it personally though

 

[KYDan]

I bought a 50 gallon TSC transport tank and rigged it with a wobble pump and a water separating micron fuel filter (Goldenrod) that I can pick up with my tractor boom and set in the back of my pickup. There are no off road or farm fuel distributors close by so I drive about 50 miles to get the fuel. I set the tank on a 4 wheel furniture mover so I can push or pull it whever I need it in my garage/shop. I have done this for 20 odd years and never had a problem with water in the fuel. I use a very similar setup for my airplane fuel and I have never had a problem with it either. It's not that expensive when you consider it and it is convenient to have the fuel here when I need/want it.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Water in diesel often comes from the underground storage tanks (UST) at service stations where the warm moist air is drawn into the tank as fuel is pumped out. Being cooler underground, condensation builds up in the UST over time. A good station will filter out the water at the pump.

Above-ground tanks, including 5-gallon containers and most bulk dealers, are less of a problem because the temperature of the fuel is usually closer to the ambient air temperature.