DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse.

[kco]

I have followed this post since the start and early in the piece, posed the question "Who makes the transmission?"

The replies seem to suggest it is made by "Volvo" in Scandinavia.

This might sound naive, but how much expertise would you expect Kioti USA or Daedong Korea would have with troubleshooting and diagnosing a Daedong supplier's transmission problem.

I'm guessing that Daedong are just referring it to the Scandinavian manufacturer to get answers.

You would also think that the same manufacturer supplies transmissions to other CUT brands; if so have these transmissions displayed squealing?

Here's a page from the DK35/40/45 workshop manual. It says it is a Kanzaki transmission. I think it is a Japanese company.

 

[Coyote machine]

Island,
I agree with most of what you said; and see a slightly different possible reason for Kioti's head in the sand routine. What you described with the loader debacle, (well before my time here), reminds me of GM's approach to the gas tanks placed under the driver's side door on some GM pickups. In that case, until enough people were killed or injured and a class action suit came about it was denied, denied, denied, hoping it would just go away. The actuarial bean counters calculate a point at which it costs (theoretically more) to change something than roll the dice against suits brought, and the possible eventual payout or imposed changes/fines by legal action. Unfortunately, lives are lost as a direct result of those calculations to essentially keep as much profit in the shareholders pockets.
Kioti's squealing HST trannys on certain recent, and possibly ongoing sales and production of these tractors will not cost similar consequence in people's lives but make no mistake Kioti is probably hoping those of us squealing about our squealing tractors will go away or at least our warranties will and then we will have little recourse.
I for one plan to ring the Kioti corporate bell and see what they tell me now. I have a copy of their rudimentary drawing I copied at my dealer's store and am still amazed they would even send anything out that was so rudimentary, hoping people would bite, and then just disappear. I'm more inclined to side with my dealer's thinking of the flex tube solving nothing. BTW, he has said he's seen lots of other brands that have squealing transmissions over the years. This doesn't really give me any further comfort then prior to hearing him tell me that.
For the moment I'll just have to see what feedback I get from Kioti Korporate.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's a page from the DK35/40/45 workshop manual. It says it is a Kanzaki transmission. I think it is a Japanese company.

It says that they are the pump manufacturer. Are they also the actual transmission manufacturer? It is unclear to me based on what the page lists...

Thanks,

CM

 

[kco]

From what I can tell from the picture a couple of pages over the HST hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor are in the same casting and come as a unit.

I can't find any reference to the manufacturer of the geared portion of the transmission. Of course, my practical knowledge of machinery is just slightly better than that of brain surgery. I could be reading this incorrectly.

If required I can upload a couple of pages tomorrow. But if you have the EX35 manual from the Australian site, it appears to be the same information as my DK35 manual.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island,
I agree with most of what you said; and see a slightly different possible reason for Kioti's head in the sand routine. What you described with the loader debacle, (well before my time here), reminds me of GM's approach to the gas tanks placed under the driver's side door on some GM pickups. In that case, until enough people were killed or injured and a class action suit came about it was denied, denied, denied, hoping it would just go away. The actuarial bean counters calculate a point at which it costs (theoretically more) to change something than roll the dice against suits brought, and the possible eventual payout or imposed changes/fines by legal action. Unfortunately, lives are lost as a direct result of those calculations to essentially keep as much profit in the shareholders pockets.
Kioti's squealing HST trannys on certain recent, and possibly ongoing sales and production of these tractors will not cost similar consequence in people's lives but make no mistake Kioti is probably hoping those of us squealing about our squealing tractors will go away or at least our warranties will and then we will have little recourse.
I for one plan to ring the Kioti corporate bell and see what they tell me now. I have a copy of their rudimentary drawing I copied at my dealer's store and am still amazed they would even send anything out that was so rudimentary, hoping people would bite, and then just disappear. I'm more inclined to side with my dealer's thinking of the flex tube solving nothing. BTW, he has said he's seen lots of other brands that have squealing transmissions over the years. This doesn't really give me any further comfort then prior to hearing him tell me that.
For the moment I'll just have to see what feedback I get from Kioti Korporate.

As I recall with the cracked loaders (KL120/KL130) in the end it was apparent that Kioti was not actually hiding anything, they just did not communicate effectively. There were delays in understanding how widespread the cracks were, further delays while they worked out a solution with the Korean manufacturer (not Daedong itself), then there were delays while they put the repair kit into production, then again further delays when it turned out that the repair kit only fit some of the loaders in quesiton, then yet more delay while they reengineered the repair kit and produced it again. Finally they rolled out the repair program via dealerships. This took about 18 months as I recall.

In the end it gradually became clear they were in fact operating in "good faith" but also that they simply did not communicate either at all or effectively at the various delay points. PO'd a lot of customers and dealers unnecessarily. It appears they learned little from that experience. I am under the impression that they are a medium sized management staff that thinks they are running an efficient ship but in fact are frequently way off base. They are not big enough as a corporation to have layers of management talent to self police on these issues and therefore they tend to sweep problems under the rug until they feel comfortable with their solution. I get the impression they have about five or ten people in the corporate office trying to manage these issues along with multiple other tasks rather than having a dedicated team focusing on both problem solving and communicating. The engineers are only doing engineering parts of the puzzle, the senior management is just trying to keep the lid on it and customer service reps are instructed to BS or stall until they have their solution all nicely packaged. Perhaps it is a characteristic of mid sized businesses generally but Kioti certainly makes a muddle of it.

 

[Coyote machine]

Island Tractor,
Sounds like the tail wagging the dog. What a nightmare. Time is of the essence with the transmissions, possibly more so than with loaders. A tractor will function with a cracked loader, but less well with a damaged or failing transmission.
I'd really like to get them on top of this situation but am not yet clear how best to go about doing so. Class action has been suggested as a concept, but premature threat of a lawsuit will likely cause more entrenchment and adversarial type behavior/outcome, which I see as being unproductive.
Thoughts?

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

this is not true. My dealer came to my place with a replacement hydraulic tube and replaced the metal hose with the rubber hose. Kioti has told them that the metal hose is causing resonance thru the metal tube.. a harmonic noise. The tube is supposed to eliminate this. Kioti supplied all the parts and is paying his labor to replace it.

I work with an engineer who back several years ago worked on a squeal in a hydrostat steering system on New Holland combines. It was an harmonic problem issue also. It took awhile to find the right combo of tubes and hoses to fix the squeal.

Sounds like they have a fix and are taking care of it.:thumbsup:

 

[dourobob]

When I first contacted Kioti about it they sent the hand drawing to my dealer and he flat out refused to make it up and install it on my machine.

I got bogged down looking backwards at the posts on this discussion (there are quite a few on this one) so I'll just ask - Did you (could you) post a copy of the Kioti drawing?

I would really like to get this fixed before warranty expires.

Bob

 

[grsthegreat]

I also for one just believe that its simply a harmonic sound issue, and the steel pipes were causing this noise. By switching the pipe to rubber, this eliminated the issue. Its interesting to note that this noise only happened when the whether was cold and the fluids thinner. Didnt happen in colder climates. The power of the transmission wasnt affected by this.

I really believe some are making this out to be too great of an issue. I had a Ford Taurus that blew the transmission a little after 100,000 miles on it. When i took it to the transmission shop...the service tech told me flat out that nearly all older ford taurus's blew the tranny around 100,000 mi due to some plastic throw out parts in them. It was a known manufacturers defect and FORD did nothing to fix the old rigs or even acknowledge the issue... after 100,000 miles why should they.

MInd you Ford changed those parts in later rigs, but didnt repair the first vehicles affected. This is how ALL car companies react.

Even when my tractor made these noises, no effect on tractor was noticed. (ie harmonics again). Also nice to note that alot of Kubotas and even my neighbord JD HST unit are saying the same things about their HST trannies.

 

[Coyote machine]

I got bogged down looking backwards at the posts on this discussion (there are quite a few on this one) so I'll just ask - Did you (could you) post a copy of the Kioti drawing?

I would really like to get this fixed before warranty expires.

Bob

I have the drawing, somewhere, not sure exactly where at the moment so I'm searching through the first 10 or so pages to see if it was already posted by TNewbern.... feel free to do the same...start at page 10 and go forward, I'm at page 7 currently.