Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck?

[deerefan]

To me this is the majority of the problem. I grew up on union dollars but will never work for one. I have seen the greed lose jobs so quick your head will spin. My father flipped sides the last 15 years he worked and was plant manager and VP of the company he had worked as a union employee for 30 years and can't believe what he bought into.

Right To Work and dismantling of unions will be the only thing giving the US a fighting chance to get back on track as a manufacturing super power. To me Unions=Special Interest Groups. The largest out there.

Chris

I work in a upper management position in a large commercial construction company. As I was working my way up, I was approached several times to join a union. Finally, I told on of the hustlers this exact statement: "I am smart enough to make decisions on my own, smart enough not to give you a percentage of my hard earned money to make decisions for me and smart enough to know a scam when I see one. Have a nice day, but only if your union allows it." They left me alone.

 

[tulenutn2o]

I agree. Unions today are nothing more than another mega-corp grabbing your money and doing nothing. I worked in amerit shop then went to a manufacturing facility and was in the union for 13 yrs. before I quit them. Only people they seemed to "help" were the worthless sob's who couldn't hold a job without them.................Not unlike what our administration is doing today. A few of us do all the work, and some lazy bum sits back and collects all the benefits.............

 

[timswi]

Your info is incorrect. I have two web sites that I follow closely and this one was last updated Dec 12th with current paybacks ect. Ford took no monies. GM, GMAC, Ally, GM Supplier Companies, and GM Receivables are all listed as taking monies. Chrysler has a list also. Its all right here in black and white.

I watch this list weekly along with another that both keep good info on these companies and all that took the bailouts. I make my decisions on who gets my money when I make a major purchase and sought out a bank not on the list when I just refinanced my house 3 weeks ago.

Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica

Chris

The term "bailout" is a loaded word...In most cases they were government issued loans. In the case of the banks, virtually all of it was paid back, with a heavy interest charge. The auto complaines are also paying back their gov't money, albeit slowly...The term bailout would imply a gift. It's not. I was certainly not a fan of any of this.

Not to belabor the point, but Ford's hands aren't clean either: FactCheck.org : Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

Blue Ops: The Clandestine Bailout Of Ford | The Truth About Cars

Ford Looks Hypocritical In New Anti-Bailout Commercial - Forbes

 

[WilliamBos]

The term "bailout" is a loaded word...In most cases they were government issued loans. In the case of the banks, virtually all of it was paid back, with a heavy interest charge. The auto complaines are also paying back their gov't money, albeit slowly...The term bailout would imply a gift. It's not. I was certainly not a fan of any of this.

Not to belabor the point, but Ford's hands aren't clean either: FactCheck.org : Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

Blue Ops: The Clandestine Bailout Of Ford | The Truth About Cars

Ford Looks Hypocritical In New Anti-Bailout Commercial - Forbes

Thamk you!!

 

[WilliamBos]

The term "bailout" is a loaded word...In most cases they were government issued loans. In the case of the banks, virtually all of it was paid back, with a heavy interest charge. The auto complaines are also paying back their gov't money, albeit slowly...The term bailout would imply a gift. It's not. I was certainly not a fan of any of this.

Not to belabor the point, but Ford's hands aren't clean either: FactCheck.org : Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

Blue Ops: The Clandestine Bailout Of Ford | The Truth About Cars

Ford Looks Hypocritical In New Anti-Bailout Commercial - Forbes

Thank you!

 

[jeffsw6]

There are companies that do sit on cash, microsoft I believe is one of them.

Microsoft has also distributed well over $100 billion to investors in the past ten years, through share buybacks and dividends. They are also carrying $3.75bln of medium- to long-term debt now, and they began issuing commercial paper.

This is a company that never had debt before, did not need debt, but Wall Street forced it to reduce its cash position and take on debt because that's the way mega-corps work now.

It's also a company without any true competitor for its cash cow products, Windows (desktop) and Office. Outside those areas, they have healthy competition and do not really dominate; but they are very much like the pre-breakup AT&T -- their near-total-monopoly in a couple of lucrative businesses finances everything they do, and their investments into other business areas have not really paid off.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Call it what you want or put whatever spin you want on it but Ford did not participate in the bailout. They were give loans and grants just as every other manufacture to tool up to make more fuel efficient cars and trucks.

You dig long enough and put every grant and loan that every company has ever taken it will make your head spin. The difference is that GM was done and had no other way to save them because of the Unions Greed and Poor Upper Management. Its still not over for them. The legacy employees will kill them in the next 10 years. The robbed from the share holders, tax payers, and just about any investor in the US. How anyone could buy one of their products is beyond me and even crazier is to buy into the NEW GM stock after they stole billions from the OLD GM share holders.:confused2:

Our old buddy Builder tried to go down this road also. It has not changed my mind one bit. I have not bought a Ford since 2007 but my next truck may likely be one. :thumbsup:

Chris

 

[timswi]

Call it what you want or put whatever spin you want on it but Ford did not participate in the bailout. They were give loans and grants just as every other manufacture to tool up to make more fuel efficient cars and trucks.

You dig long enough and put every grant and loan that every company has ever taken it will make your head spin. The difference is that GM was done and had no other way to save them because of the Unions Greed and Poor Upper Management. Its still not over for them. The legacy employees will kill them in the next 10 years. The robbed from the share holders, tax payers, and just about any investor in the US. How anyone could buy one of their products is beyond me and even crazier is to buy into the NEW GM stock after they stole billions from the OLD GM share holders.:confused2:

Our old buddy Builder tried to go down this road also. It has not changed my mind one bit. I have not bought a Ford since 2007 but my next truck may likely be one. :thumbsup:

Chris

Chris, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind in any way shape or form...Just stating the facts...Ford isn't quite as pristine as everyone has been led to believe...Their hand was in the cookie jar too. Hats off to them for winning a PR war while leaving out a few details..Good for them. I have no ill will.

 

[JasG]

The term "bailout" is a loaded word...In most cases they were government issued loans. In the case of the banks, virtually all of it was paid back, with a heavy interest charge. The auto complaines are also paying back their gov't money, albeit slowly...The term bailout would imply a gift. It's not. I was certainly not a fan of any of this.

Not to belabor the point, but Ford's hands aren't clean either: FactCheck.org : Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

Blue Ops: The Clandestine Bailout Of Ford | The Truth About Cars

Ford Looks Hypocritical In New Anti-Bailout Commercial - Forbes

Going by your links Ford got a loan under a DOE program, which several other auto companies got including GM and Toyota. I already knew about this, the program was started before the bailouts. That isn't a bailout, as I said before if it was loans to GM, no one would care. Ford didn't walk away from it's debt, GM did. That is the part that has many people including myself upset at GM. GM was treated different than any company in the history of our country. They were allowed to walk away with very little in terms of sacrifice. The people who made the sacrifice were the stock holders and the people who held GM's bonds and of course the US tax payer.

As I said before GM should have been auctioned off and the bond holders at least should have been covered. Instead the government did something it has never done before.


Now we want to change the meaning of bailout, or to lump loans into bailout? Kinda like "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is".

 

[timswi]

Going by your links Ford got a loan under a DOE program, which several other auto companies got including GM and Toyota. I already knew about this, the program was started before the bailouts. That isn't a bailout, as I said before if it was loans to GM, no one would care. Ford didn't walk away from it's debt, GM did. That is the part that has many people including myself upset at GM. GM was treated different than any company in the history of our country. They were allowed to walk away with very little in terms of sacrifice. The people who made the sacrifice were the stock holders and the people who held GM's bonds and of course the US tax payer.

As I said before GM should have been auctioned off and the bond holders at least should have been covered. Instead the government did something it has never done before.


Now we want to change the meaning of bailout, or to lump loans into bailout? Kinda like "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is".

I don't disagree with you...Ford mortgaged themselves to the hilt when the credit markets were open...When GM needed to do the same, the markets were locked and closed....If Ford could borrow on the open market, why did they go to the governement?...Because the markets were still somewhat frozen...There is a parallel here. Not the same, but I hope you get my drift.

If Ford hadn't borrowed all of the money that they did, when they did..They would have been in exactly the same boat.

I don't like government intervention in any industry as the strings attatched become tow-chains...GM learned this one the hard way.

I am in no way defending any of the 2008-2009 goverment interventions...But looking back, it did moderate, not fix, a cascading catastophe...