New Ford Superduty owners beware (diesels)

[Rustyiron]

:confused2::confused2:What we are all witnessing here is the govt. screwing up (diesel) a good economical engine. Any one old enough to remember how they (epa) effed up gas motors in the late 70's and 80's? GAS motors with smog pumps and the like, that sparked the interest in, and the begining of the diesel for the light truck market. Seems like they have us going in circles:confused2: Lost of folks here are fondly mentioning the very tried and true 7.3, (including GM and Chrysler fans). That motor as I understand it was not able to be "cleaned up" to meet one of the BS newre "tier level" requirements of the epa.
I would love to hear the real honest scientific answer to the following question ; Pollution-wise, is a regular #2 fuel oil diesel truck engine (totally built for power/efficiency-no pollution concerns) that delivers, say 50% better overall fuel economy than an equivelent (HP/torque)gas engine better or worse (enviormentally) than the gas?
This "green" thing has really become a religon for some people, remember the idiotic "cash for clunkers"? I have a very hard time believing that by junking an older car (motor) with all it's inherent energy used to mine, melt, and make all of the steel, plastic, and aluminum contained in that vehicle, not to mention the same energy required to produce the same in the replacement vehicle..... you see where I'm going? Vote very thoughtfully this year!

 

[timswi]

nope.

Lots of cursing, right angle drills and grinders.

Not looking forward to it

Not even sure I can get a right angle drill in a van chassis...I'm dreading this.

 

[me0418840987]

Anyone that got rid of their 90's 5.9 powered Dodges miss em' yet? Speeking as someone who has 3 400,000+ mile Cummins (92'-94'-94') sitting here at home or parked on a jobsite at any time. Just gotta keep fixing the rust until something reliable comes along. Just don't know if they will make it another 20 years. Next thing you know, they will find a way to conveniently stop making parts available for the "vintage" diesels. Wish the durn gubment would get the f out of the way.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Ill say one thing about ford and their warranty in my experience.... flat out they dont care

I'll vouch for GM not caring either. I had a 2005 Duramax dually that was overheating from day one. It was a know issue on all the GM diesel sites. One guy even invented a cure for $1000.00.
A lot of people contacted GM about it, and when I contacted them they said " OH we haven't heard of that issue before" My local dealer actually had the stones to tell me overheating is NORMAL and it happens on his Duramax.

I swore off all American Diesels and went to the Mercedes/Dodge Sprinter diesel, it pulls like a train and not so much as a hick up with it. I had it over leaded on one trip and it took the Colorado mountains like they were mole hills. Best mileage 24mpg.

Really how difficult is it. I mean we've been making diesels since 1893 - you'd think we would get it right by now. Today we have computers, CAD drawings, lasers, water jet cutting, etc. and in 1893, they had pencils and paper and I bet those diesels are still running today.

 

[TheGoose]

FWIW: your 6.2L engine was designed and built by Detroit Diesel, which was owned by GM at the time. I've got one sitting in a barn with over 200K on the original engine.

However, one of the selling points for me as a customer after having owned a GM 6.2 liter abortion of a diesel

 

[Scooby074]

" OH we haven't heard of that issue before"

Too much :laughing:

They used the ole "jeeze your the first one ive heard of having that problem" on you too eh?

Been there, heard that

You should see the looks on the service writer's face when you bring in print outs from forums with others having the exact same problem. They love it even more when you whip out a TSB.

When asked why they didnt follow the TSB, they said "it didnt come up" on the computer, yet i found it at home, no problems, albeit it was for the following model year. (FYI It was drive shaft chatter caused by lack of lubrication on the splines, that they couldnt diagnose after having the truck a whole day).

 

[sandman2234]

I still don't know which one I would go with, IF the powerstroke died and money to put ANY diesel in was available. Daddy has had good luck with his Cummins, but heck he only averages about 4k a year with it. Most of the Cat's I have seen in trucks are the cat's meow as far as staying together. Parts seem to be a little more $ for the cat parts, but use's less of them typically. No real experience on exact part to exact part comparison, just a general feeling. The fact that help is available with a Cummin's replacement would probably sway things that direction. (somebody else has been there, done that)
What would you guys use IF your Ford, Chevy or Dodge diesel engine died and that one wasn't available (or worth putting back in)?
David from jax

 

[JasG]

:confused2::confused2:What we are all witnessing here is the govt. screwing up (diesel) a good economical engine. Any one old enough to remember how they (epa) effed up gas motors in the late 70's and 80's? GAS motors with smog pumps and the like, that sparked the interest in, and the begining of the diesel for the light truck market. Seems like they have us going in circles:confused2: Lost of folks here are fondly mentioning the very tried and true 7.3, (including GM and Chrysler fans). That motor as I understand it was not able to be "cleaned up" to meet one of the BS newre "tier level" requirements of the epa.
I would love to hear the real honest scientific answer to the following question ; Pollution-wise, is a regular #2 fuel oil diesel truck engine (totally built for power/efficiency-no pollution concerns) that delivers, say 50% better overall fuel economy than an equivelent (HP/torque)gas engine better or worse (enviormentally) than the gas?
This "green" thing has really become a religon for some people, remember the idiotic "cash for clunkers"? I have a very hard time believing that by junking an older car (motor) with all it's inherent energy used to mine, melt, and make all of the steel, plastic, and aluminum contained in that vehicle, not to mention the same energy required to produce the same in the replacement vehicle..... you see where I'm going? Vote very thoughtfully this year!

Much of what the EPA does is based on CARB (CA Air Resource Board) and what is sickening is they commited fraud when it comes to diesel engines. It is now known that the study that these last couple rounds of emission rules were based on made up numbers. CARB knew this, I believe it was based on an agenda. CARB over stated emissions by 340% to push the newest rules and to force a phase out of older engines.

Another issue is the EPA changes the rules, till 2009 they would only allow engines with EGR, no SCR was allowed. Now that companies like Ford, Dodge (cummins), Navistar, Cat, Deere have poured billions into EGR. The EPA allows SCR which has been used in Europe for 8-10 years. It is also what most engine builders wanted to use here. No one from what I have read knows yet how they will get to the last round, because they are think the EPA will change the rules again.

EGR in a diesel increases fuel usage, soot and other emissions, and reduces engine life. Yet that is what the EPA forced on everyone.

http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2009/Dec09/113009/120309-02.htm

POWER Magazine Blog :: Fraud in Calif. Air Board Rules

If you search CARB Fraud you get a lot of information about it.

Navistar is currently suing the EPA because of the rules change which now all Navistar has is EGR motors based on a Cat design. Cat dropped out of the over the road engine market over the rules change.

 

[JB4310]

Anyone that got rid of their 90's 5.9 powered Dodges miss em' yet? Speeking as someone who has 3 400,000+ mile Cummins (92'-94'-94') sitting here at home or parked on a jobsite at any time. Just gotta keep fixing the rust until something reliable comes along. Just don't know if they will make it another 20 years. Next thing you know, they will find a way to conveniently stop making parts available for the "vintage" diesels. Wish the durn gubment would get the f out of the way.

I had a 95 Ram 2500 with the 5.9. I did have to replace the injector pump at $2500. with low miles. I was mad at the time but then after 12 years of no/ zero other problems, I figured it evened out especially when hearing some of the horror stories from the other manufacturers.

I have an 07 ram 3500 now with 6.7 Cummins and Aisin transmission now, $60,000 with custom service body. Already had major tranny work done to stop a code from popping, replaced the alternator, then the ECM, now the turbo speed sensor is throwing a code, and one of the possible causes is bad ECM, which has less than 500 miles since it was just replaced, about 1,700 bucks for the part. All this work was done under warranty so far but that just expired and I'm on my own now. except I have a year on the new ECM.

The truck is awesome when everything is right and I'm not ready to swear off Cummins/Dodge, but if I had to pay all this out of pocket I would be complaining for sure.
Saw the newest Ram 5500 with 8 gallon ureia tank under the driver floor, I don't think diesel will be in my next service truck, it's just getting too risky getting whacked with a $20,000. repower bill and how much down time.
It's just not worth that risk to hear the sweat sound of diesel or save a little on fuel cost, just have to go a little slower when towing up hill.

Really how difficult is it. I mean we've been making diesels since 1893 - you'd think we would get it right by now. Today we have computers, CAD drawings, lasers, water jet cutting, etc. and in 1893, they had pencils and paper and I bet those diesels are still running today.

Right for who ????

Right for you or right for the manufacturer?
Right for the manufacturer is a product with the perfect balance of planned obsolescence. So they don't lose their loyal following, but sell as many replacements as possible.

You don't think they are using all this powerful technology to build a product to be trouble free and last well beyond it's warranty period do you?
Sad but true, that's what we've become. The best engineers are working on how to make sure the product doesn't last for ever. Anything else would be a conflict of interest.

JB

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'll vouch for GM not caring either. I had a 2005 Duramax dually that was overheating from day one. It was a know issue on all the GM diesel sites. One guy even invented a cure for $1000.00.
A lot of people contacted GM about it, and when I contacted them they said " OH we haven't heard of that issue before" My local dealer actually had the stones to tell me overheating is NORMAL and it happens on his Duramax.

I had the same truck (05 GMC Dmax 3500 4x4 SRW), same issues not to mention injectors, glow plugs, electrical issues, bad paint, ect. Bought it brand new and sold it, well traded it 9 months later on a 06 F-350 that is still in the drive. I swore of GM products at that point. I took a bath with that pos!:confused2:

It would heat up like a fat lady on a summer day with 10,000# behind it. I think the biggest issue was the smallish air cleaner/intake.

Chris