Neighbor's dobermans on my land, protecting "their" property ...??

[gengine]

With all the testosterone flowing regarding shooting the dogs, poisoning the dogs, calling the neighbor in the middle of the night etc etc, and all the talk about people and children being ripped to shreds -have some of you stopped to consider the neighbor has exactly the same rights to do what he wants on his own property - including letting the dogs run loose?

Since March 7 2011 - the original incident - I've lost tack and I'm sure Beppington will indicate - Have the dogs ever actually crossed the fence line to confront the OP?

Quite frankly, I'd be more afraid of running into some of the posters on here in the dark, than the Dobes.

The dogs have crossed the property line, and there is evidence that they have done it several times. IIRC, the neighbors have ten acres? Why do they have to use their neighbors place too? I agree with obed, that delivering in person is is probably more tasteful, although maybe a little awkward.

Cinder- the post of mine you quoted was my first in this thread, so I don't know if your testosterone comment was directed toward me. I took the time to read all 550 something posts. Although I don't remember everything, someone is looking for a solution, and reading posts to find a fix. Beppington bought the land, pays the taxes, and is doing work to improve it. The neighbors are negligent, trespassing, and don't seem to have any respect for their new neighbor. Yes, the neighbors have been riding their horses in his property also, without permission. If I were in his shoes, it would tick me off as much as someone digging their key into the paint of my brand new truck. There's defiantly a lack of respect. Yes the neighbors have rights too, but do they really have to allow their dogs to run on the neighbors property when they have plenty of room themselves?

 

[gengine]

Post #182 has the ten acres comment, and post number one has their dogs crawling under the fence to go after beppington before being called off by the owner. There are so many what might have been if the owner wasn't there to call off the dogs.

 

[2manyrocks]

I've witnessed 2 of the dogs on my property just that once (original post). 2 other times the dogs charged at me only to be stopped just in the nick of time by their frantic owners.

These dogs have evidently formed a habit of protecting what they see as their territory. Until their owners break them of this, they present a risk to you and anyone else on your property.

It is true that the adjoining property owner has a right to do what they want on their land up to a point, but it is not true that they can allow dobermans to freely roam the neighborhood. They aren't friendly little house dogs, but perhaps your neighbors fail to see this because they see them as their loyal pets.

Since you have been discussing this with your neighbors, you have to assess whether it makes sense to continue discussing it with them in person or by telephone with the goal of getting an agreed action plan in place. If you start writing letters, you need to be very careful in what you put in writing from the standpoint of not creating ill will and how it might be read by a jury later.

Sometimes it is helpful to write a draft and intentionally let it sit for a week. Then re-read it. Get a friend to carefully look over the letter for you.

There's a chinese proverb that says, "words once uttered run faster than horses."

None of us have to live with your neighbors and none of us are in a position to pick up on all the nuances of your particular situation.

Until this gets resolved, be careful not to expose yourself or any kids to these dogs.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

The dogs have crossed the property line, and there is evidence that they have done it several times. IIRC, the neighbors have ten acres? Why do they have to use their neighbors place too? I agree with obed, that delivering in person is is probably more tasteful, although maybe a little awkward.

Cinder- the post of mine you quoted was my first in this thread, so I don't know if your testosterone comment was directed toward me. I took the time to read all 550 something posts. Although I don't remember everything, someone is looking for a solution, and reading posts to find a fix. Beppington bought the land, pays the taxes, and is doing work to improve it. The neighbors are negligent, trespassing, and don't seem to have any respect for their new neighbor. Yes, the neighbors have been riding their horses in his property also, without permission. If I were in his shoes, it would tick me off as much as someone digging their key into the paint of my brand new truck. There's defiantly a lack of respect. Yes the neighbors have rights too, but do they really have to allow their dogs to run on the neighbors property when they have plenty of room themselves?

1. If you check post #556 by the OP - the dogs have actually crossed the line ONCE - this was back March 07/2011. It appears they may have run towards him one or more times since then, but as I read the posts were called off by the owners and did not cross the line. I have lost track of the horse riding, but suspect that was mostly in the past, but in any case even if it is not it can be dealt with and is not the basis of his "fear of attack by dangerous dogs"

2. The testosterone comments were not directed to you specifically, but rather to more than a few that want to shoot / poison / dig a hole etc.

3. The part in your post which I wanted to emphasis and which I think a lot of the "Shoot'm / Kill'm" crowd does not seem to understand, is that the dog guy has "rights" as well. As one other poster put it - as long as the dogs stay on their side of the line - Bepp is SOL and at the end of the day, from a legal view, I doubt the dog owner would have any legal obligation to worry about whether he is afraid or not.

So, in summary, I had no problem with your post or thoughts. None of my comments were directed, in a negative way, towards you.

 

[aczlan]

1. If you check post #556 by the OP - the dogs have actually crossed the line ONCE - this was back March 07/2011. It appears they may have run towards him one or more times since then, but as I read the posts were called off by the owners and did not cross the line. I have lost track of the horse riding, but suspect that was mostly in the past, but in any case even if it is not it can be dealt with and is not the basis of his "fear of attack by dangerous dogs"

As I read it, the dogs are still left loose in the yard and the only thing which has stopped them from crossing the fence is the owner yelling at them.
If the dogs are loose in the yard with the owners yelling at them as only thing to stop them from going after the OP when he goes by on his property, I would say that the situation is NOT under control and the dogs are still a problem.
What if he goes by just as the owner steps inside to grab the steaks to put them on the grill? Or just after the owner walks inside to do something for a few seconds?
There MUST be some kind of containment, be it a fence, a electric collar, a chain or what have you that DOES NOT rely on the owners constant presence.
Anything less is an accident waiting to happen.

Aaron Z

 

[CurlyDave]

...There MUST be some kind of containment, be it a fence, a electric collar, a chain or what have you that DOES NOT rely on the owners constant presence.
Anything less is an accident waiting to happen.

Aaron Z

My thoughts exactly.

I will not allow dangerous animals to live in my neighborhood any more than I would allow a rattlesnake to live under my front porch.

The owners have been warned repeatedly and claim not to have the funds to do anything. But they do have the funds to get 3 new dogs.

You have the right not to be put in fear on your own property. I would tell the neighbors about the kids on the electric ATVs, and that it is completely unacceptable for you to have to call them before you use your own property. The proper solution is to keep the dogs chained 24/7 until they can afford a fence.

Mount a shotgun scabbard on your tractor and drive by frequently...

 

[forgeblast]

is that the dog guy has "rights" as well.
Not if that dog is not under his control. His right will be to put the dog down once it goes and bites someone. With a dog owner like this, I have delt with them before, and there for can cut a lot of the pc of out of my response.
Take your dog out of the equation, we are not talking about your dog.
"But you didnt talk to them" so what. Aggressive dog coming at you talk to it see how that works.
"But you will loose a neighbor" a neighbor who tresspasses and has aggressive dogs, throw meth in there and you have a piller of the community. Want to loose a neighbor faster have one of your kids bit.
"Feed them treats" great now they will come for you since they know you have food.

1. Get paperwork on the dogs, fill out dog warden forms. When our neigbors shepard bit and scratched my wifes 2 week old car, and it was the window where my daughter was looking out, it was the paper work we had on file showing the dogs were constantly out of the yard, not undercontrol and aggressive that let us recover the $$ for the repairs.
We cannot walk up our road because of these dogs. As another post said the one who talks the most looses in court, well he ran his mouth about his rights. But they do not extend into the street, or my property.
2. After being bit once, its not something you want to have happen to anyone. My dogs are fenced in to keep them safe, and others. My other neighbors shepard mix, came up and bit one of my dogs who was chained up and could not get away from it. 500.00 it cost me to sew her up, she has never been the same. Hates other dogs now. The same dog chased me into my barn before I got my carry. Has not been around since then.
3. Ever see a kid with stiches on their face after being bitten? Family dogs bite, stranger dogs will bite too. A dog not under control--define this how you will fence, leash, in a kennel..etc has the opportunity to bite.
Analysis of Dog Bites in Children Who Are Younger Than 17 Years
"The relative risk for a dog attack by a German shepherd or a Doberman was ∼5 times higher than that of a Labrador/retriever or cross-breed. The vast majority (82%) of the dogs were familiar to the children. Most (322; 94%) of the children had injuries to 1 body region; in the remaining 19 (6%) children, up to 3 body regions were injured. Of 357 injuries, the face, head, and neck region was the leading site affected (50%). Inpatient treatment was required in 93 (27%) patients. "

 

[foggy1111]

I agree with documenting any dog encounters on or near your property. Even if they are only notes you keep. A game camera placed near the area the dogs frequent on your land may be helpful too.

Even so, find a way to SIT DOWN with your neighbor and TALK about this issue. Take him out for coffee or go to his office at work...etc. Tell him your fears and concerns and lay down your expectations in no uncertain terms. Anything short of this allows him to continue without making changes....and he can later plead ignorance of the real issues.

 

[patrick_g]

Wyoming is a fence out state.

Interesting...

Oklahoma is a fence in state. It is the responsibility of the animal owner to erect fences to keep their animals in and not be causing problems on the land of others.

Hmmm... Fence out??? Some folks raise Beeffalo or even raise buffalo (AKA bison) around here. So in Wyoming if someone raises bison or elephants or... then the responsibility is for surrounding neighbors to build adequate fences in self protection?

That is not a very fair (or intelligent) approach.

Pat

 

[foggy1111]

Interesting...

Oklahoma is a fence in state. It is the responsibility of the animal owner to erect fences to keep their animals in and not be causing problems on the land of others.

Hmmm... Fence out??? Some folks raise Beeffalo or even raise buffalo (AKA bison) around here. So in Wyoming if someone raises bison or elephants or... then the responsibility is for surrounding neighbors to build adequate fences in self protection?

That is not a very fair (or intelligent) approach.

Pat

Gotta wonder if that goes back to the "open range" days of cattle drives?