Tractor Shopping Observations

[k0ua]

I'm one of those who certainly bought more than was needed. I only needed a loader but the dealer said they had to build a tractor around it.

I was exactly the same way,. I was thinking the loader was a bargain, but then they just would not sell it without the tractor, and I was stuck buying the whole package, hydrostat and all.

Seriously I cannot imagine owning a tractor without a loader, and a hydro is nice for loader work.. but that is just me, get whatever floats your boat:laughing:

James K0UA

 

[Verticaltrx]

This is not meant to knock anybody's choices in anyway, just some observations from my recent tractor shopping both in person and over the internet. And yes I could be described as "old school"

1. Tractor manufacturers are forcing us into machines with less weight and more HP. I suspect there are many reasons for this, one is people are using tractors more like lawn mowers and they don't want to mess up their lawn. I think from the point of manufacturers, it's because they can fit more small tractors on a container ship than they can big ones. I've seen some amazing things done with older tractors in the 30hp range (because they have the weight to get the power to the ground). Nowdays most 30hp tractors look like lawnmowers and weigh about the same as one.

2. There is a huge move to hydrostatic transmissions. I'm not going to debate which transmission is best (they each have their place), but hydrostatics use more hp and they are more expensive. You can't hardly buy a manual transmission in a car nowdays. I see this bleeding over to the tractor segment in the next few years. People are getting lazier and people don't understand how a tractor clutch works. If you want a hydrostatic that's fine by me, but don't try to tell me I have to buy one.

3. People think you HAVE to purchase a tractor with a loader. I'm not debating that a loader is a very handy tool. What I am saying is people are spending a lot of money on loaders that the average person gets very little use out of. You do not have to include a loader in your initial purchase, it can always be added latter. A lot of farming was done before loaders become common place. How did they manage? They were resourceful and they used their brain. Dealers are automatically adding the cost of a loader in my package without even asking if I want one. I don't know but I suspect this must be a high profit margin item.

4. Tractor dealerships are looking more like car dealerships. And most of the employees know very little about tractors.

1. I'll just refer to Kubota and Deere, as those are the two I'm most familiar with. In the Kubota '30hp' class there are three options:

B3200, 1800lbs, Hydro trans
L3200, 2600lbs, Hydro or Gear
L3240, 3400lbs, Hydro, Gear, or GST (powershift of sorts)

Deere offers:

2720: 2000lbs, hydro trans
3005: 2100lbs, gear trans
3032e: 2100lbs, hydro trans
3320: 2900lbs, hydro trans or gear (power reverser)

The L3200, L3240 and 3320 all weigh more than my Ford NAA, which I think you'd agree is a 'real' tractor.

With that said, the aforementioned models aren't even really 30hp tractors, they are 23-27hp on the PTO. That is one thing that does bug me nowadays is that they advertise engine power not PTO power.


2. As I posted above, there are plenty of choices still available with various types of gear transmissions. I really like gear tractors for many things, but for a small loader tractor hydro is hard to beat.

3. If a person were to only have one tractor, and could afford it, there is really no good reasons not to get a loader. I put about 200hrs a year on my B3200 and about half of those are just using the loader. Granted, I do use my tractor commercially, I still think the average homeowner gets a fair bit of use out of a loader. I do take it off for some tasks, and also like having a tractor without a loader for most field work. A simple gear driven tractor without a loader has always been my favorite for field work.

4. I agree on this. They are merging more and more dealers together (especially Deere) and the salesmen seem to know less about the products than ever. There are some notable exceptions, but as a trend I see this to be true.

If any manufacturer offered a pickup truck that was:

good heavy truck
an engine with some grunt
no carpet
no power locks or windows
sheet metal thick enough that it doesn't bend when you lean on it
a manual transmission with a granny gear
a rear end made for pulling not for gas mileage
*that cost less than I paid for my first house* (and I'm not that old)

I would be at the dealership first thing in the morning to buy one
and I would gladly pay extra for the heater and am/fm radio

I agree completely. I probably won't ever buy a new truck again if things continue the way they are headed. It makes me sick that you can't even get a Ford or Chevy full-size with a manual transmission anymore.

 

[D7E]

Been looking at SUV's lateley and was amazed that if i wanted one without leather seats it would be special order as all on the lot were ! Very hard to buy a lower model without sat nav/leather/heated seats and all that unneccessary junk , They look at you like you are mad when you say all you want is 4x4 / AC and a CD player !
As usual i went to an auction and bought one 4 years old for 1/4 the price of new .

 

[jenkinsph]

Been looking at SUV's lateley and was amazed that if i wanted one without leather seats it would be special order as all on the lot were ! Very hard to buy a lower model without sat nav/leather/heated seats and all that unneccessary junk , They look at you like you are mad when you say all you want is 4x4 / AC and a CD player !
As usual i went to an auction and bought one 4 years old for 1/4 the price of new .

I bought a new 2000 F150 xl pickup for $16k, simple shortbed reg cab with 5sp manual. Decent and about as cheap as I could find. got about 20 mpg highway. Found out fast it couldn't back uphill on gravel driveways. Traded the next year for a 2001 the same thing but with 4x4. Much better traction got 19 mpg. Both trucks were easy enough for me to drive but most of the younger guys couldn't drive it on hilly streets.:laughing:

Solved both problems, traded it on a new 2003 F250 Lariat 4x4 diesel and got rid of the incompetent help. Decided it was time to have my own private truck. It gets the same 20 mpg, but is a much better ride imo.

 

[powerpace]

When I bought my B3200 the dealer asked me how I would be using it. I already knew a 32 horse would be my choice. I was replacing a 28Hp., Geared Allis Chalmers that you can't get parts for anymore.
The B3200 was sold bare with add-ons, FEL and Backhoe. I opted not to get the Backhoe at that time.
Two weeks later I was back, begging the dealer to get my tractor in to get a Backhoe put on. It cost more by not having it done at the initial purchase. Ninety percent of the time the backhoe stays on the B3200. You never know when you have to dig a stump out or take a big clump of Blackberry vines out. I dug over 2000' of trenches in the last two years, two to four feet deep. Dug a dozen stumps. Ravaged the Blackberry vines.

 

[danceswithdirt]

It's like any other preferance, its personal choice. I do believe dealers of any kind are just answering to demand. Most people want, in fact demand all they can get in a tractor, car or house. Most equipment and vehicles are more efficent than ever. The jd4105 with hst I just got rid of was the most operator friendly tractor I've ever owned. I got it after the wife almost ran over me when her foot slipped off the slick finger sized clutch pedal on the old ferguson 35. No power steering and became a lot of work on a long day. With a hst I could stay on the ground and have one of the girls operate the fel. To me having fel is like having an extra man around. But certainly simple has it's place and I respect anyones choice to go this route.

 

[bbraud6]

What did you replace your 4105 with?

 

[charleyfarmall]

I probably won't ever buy a new truck again if things continue the way they are headed. It makes me sick that you can't even get a Ford or Chevy full-size with a manual transmission anymore.

Not really true. The Ram 3500 can be obtained with a 6 speed manual. I don't know about ford or chevy. I do a lot of towing heavy loads so I prefer the automatic in my truck. Cars are another story. Fewer cars are coming with manual transmissions.

 

[TripleR]

He got a Kubota M7040.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/235298-7040-pics.html

 

[charleyfarmall]

The argument that HST doesn't put down power like a geared transmission and that it robs too much power is pretty weak. HST takes about 1.5hp, that's it. Sure, if your tractor only has 18hp its 10% but then you haven't bought enough tractor either. That loss is fixed, just like the losses through your geared transmission ( yes, they have losses too).

It might take a few hours, but once you mow and load with HST you won't like going back to a geared tractor, not even a power shuttle. I have both ( all three actually) so I do know.

The problem with a lot of HST tractors in field work is that you have to keep on it to maintain speed where geared tractors can be set and left until the end of the row but modern HST's can do that too. They all have cruise control that can be set. I have done a lot of row work with both and HST's do just fine. They don't have an advantage there though.

If you need an all around utility, HST can't be beat. I was pretty much against them for a long time but after a few hours......