Tires Filling rear tires

[OrangeToys]

I dont see how, as most of the weight would be carried by the tire into the ground, not by the axle. Maybe just a very little that is above the axle line ? Is that the way you see it?

James K0UA

I think of it as adding larger tires to a truck. It doesn't wear on it very fast but it is still added stress. Maybe its different on a tractor though?

 

[20 20]

I don't think the weight would be that big a deal because it stays place on the ground. Kind of like a shaft spinning in water.

 

[Don87]

I think of it as adding larger tires to a truck. It doesn't wear on it very fast but it is still added stress. Maybe its different on a tractor though?

I don't understand your comparison.

KOua, and 20 20 said it best. When tires are liquid filled, the weight is directly on the ground, very little working weight added to axles.

Wheel weights IMHO, add extra stresses to the axles, as well as weight added to the 3pt. via a weight box or barrel.

 

[art]

Modern tractors are designed to run comfortably with liquid tire ballast, old school or not. What I have noticed is that dealers that don't 'believe' in liquid tire ballast are either not equipped to install it, or don't make enough off of it. There is no doubt that for most tractor tasks, some form of liquid ballast is beneficial. The debate rages as to which product is better, for my money it is rimguard. Most of your comment is a bit condescending...

Every one does things differently and I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings when I am talking about the industry trends that I see. The movement is away from the liquid ballast. I remember when every tractor we sold had loaded tires and that was the way that it was thirty years ago where today many that even are loader equipped are going out without liquid ballast.
The applications of compact tractors is some what different then ag tractors but they are the same in many ways. We have been able to apply what we have learned with the bigger higher hours of use ag tractors for our customers of compacts and have found the cost of ownership has been reduced.

 

[ljohnson778]

Every one does things differently and I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings when I am talking about the industry trends that I see. The movement is away from the liquid ballast. I remember when every tractor we sold had loaded tires and that was the way that it was thirty years ago where today many that even are loader equipped are going out without liquid ballast.
The applications of compact tractors is some what different then ag tractors but they are the same in many ways. We have been able to apply what we have learned with the bigger higher hours of use ag tractors for our customers of compacts and have found the cost of ownership has been reduced.

Thanks, that was well said. I know you've been in the industry a heck of a long time, so I won't debate industry trends with you, as you are clearly the expert. I will say that, in my personal experience, liquid ballast vs. no liquid ballast, regardless of wheel weights and rear ballast, the tractor with liquid ballast is clearly more stable. Dramatically so, in fact. Having run the same tractor both ways, I choose liquid ballast. Even if the aforementioned negatives exist, it would still be worth it to me.

 

[Don87]

Thanks, that was well said. I know you've been in the industry a heck of a long time, so I won't debate industry trends with you, as you are clearly the expert. I will say that, in my personal experience, liquid ballast vs. no liquid ballast, regardless of wheel weights and rear ballast, the tractor with liquid ballast is clearly more stable. Dramatically so, in fact. Having run the same tractor both ways, I choose liquid ballast. Even if the aforementioned negatives exist, it would still be worth it to me.

I'll agree with this statement completely.

When I first got my GC2400, the tires had only air, quite scary at times. After a week of use, I made a weight, using a 20 gallon barrel for on the back. Stability increased some, but the 'pucker factor' was still there.

I loaded the tires with Rimguard, and it was like someone dropped off a totally different tractor. The stability factor was totally transformed. I can load the fel and transport the load with it raised in the air( I only did this for test purposes), without the tractor tipping.

I did not try wheel weights because they are more expensive than rimguard, and I think they stress the tractor more.

 

[20 20]

The movement is away from the liquid ballast.

I wonder if it's because today there is more of a hobby farmer consumer instead of the way it use to be. Seems to me the middle man farmer is becoming a thing of the past, it's either a huge farm or a hobby farm. I know NY was the 3rd largest milk farming state not all that long ago, but I have seen many farms go under at a fast rate. Not sure where the state ranks now, and have to wonder if other states are noticing the same trend. Sorry for the ramble just trying to understand about the ballast not being as big a deal. I do realize machines are changing but lets not fool ourselfs they have not changed that much. Even if they have, wouldn't a machine with ballast still out perform one without?

 

[tiredguy]

Being you live in Michigan Rim Guard is much cheaper here than chloride most of the time so if I were you call a tire dealer and get er done. The company that makes it is in Wyoming ( south end of Grand Rapids ) so you also get the "Pure Michigan" effect too.

I recently was involved in getting some for a test that Firestone Tube Plant did to do comparitive tests and Rim Guard was the best as it caused no valve wash out ( chloride will corode and eat the inner part of the base and core up like it was sand blasted ) what so ever where others tested were similar but no wheres near as bad as chloride. It's bio degradable and stinks like pig ***** which is the only down side to it. Just be thankful you don't fix tires filled with it for a living LOL!

That's what I'm doing first thing Monday am for my B3030 after what I've went through moving deep wet heavy snow today, and that fact I tipped
mine over last fall and still haven't forgotten that "pucker factor" yet. I've filled and been around chloride for 40 years and wouldn't use it now if were
given to me for free. The only safe way is to use tubes for sure and unless you have a flat it probably will last you for 30 years as I've seen that as often as I've seen rusted out wheels because it's been around so long. I've got my 5 foot box blade on now which helps but nothing beats a ballasted tire when it comes to putting power to the ground when needed. Especially for the compact and subcompact tractors today.

Like Art said it's really not as common to use it today in larger farming operations because today choosing the correct tractor to do the job is critical to survival and most being 4WD or MF4WD in many cases filled tires will cause you problems that will not only drive you crazy but cost you lots of time and money trying to correct it. If you ever were in the seat of a big tractor that was experiencing "power hop" I can tell you from experience in
watching you'd never get me in the seat to experience it live.
Things change usually for the better over time, and I thank god everytime I start my Kubota that it doesn't have the hand wheel my old John Deere B had which was a major PITA always.
Tired

 

[rockshaft]

Do I understand that some say loaded tires are bad for backhoe use? Why is this?
I ordered my 1026R TLB with RimGuard equivalent, and I think it makes sense for me, because I won't be using it nearly as much *with* a hoe as *w/o*, and the tire weight will help with traction/stability (BH removed).

I'm no stranger to plugging tires- seems like a fair amount of debris on our property and nails on the road around my neck of the woods. That said, any special technique to a repair of a tire with beet juice? I assume getting the weight off the axle and the hole on top would be the priority, then I wonder if I could somehow rinse the puncture with warm water and patch as usual? Obviously any damage greater than an errant nail would require a more significant fix (tire off, draining and patching from the inside).

 

[Don87]

Do I understand that some say loaded tires are bad for backhoe use? Why is this?
I ordered my 1026R TLB with RimGuard equivalent, and I think it makes sense for me, because I won't be using it nearly as much *with* a hoe as *w/o*, and the tire weight will help with traction/stability (BH removed).

I'm no stranger to plugging tires- seems like a fair amount of debris on our property and nails on the road around my neck of the woods. That said, any special technique to a repair of a tire with beet juice? I assume getting the weight off the axle and the hole on top would be the priority, then I wonder if I could somehow rinse the puncture with warm water and patch as usual? Obviously any damage greater than an errant nail would require a more significant fix (tire off, draining and patching from the inside).

According to Rimguard, just plug the tire as you would any other.

Rimguard does recommend replacing rubber valve stems with metal ones. They claim the beet juice can eat away at the glue in rubber valve stems that hold the brass threads in.

 

[art]

I wonder if it's because today there is more of a hobby farmer consumer instead of the way it use to be. Seems to me the middle man farmer is becoming a thing of the past, it's either a huge farm or a hobby farm. I know NY was the 3rd largest milk farming state not all that long ago, but I have seen many farms go under at a fast rate. Not sure where the state ranks now, and have to wonder if other states are noticing the same trend. Sorry for the ramble just trying to understand about the ballast not being as big a deal. I do realize machines are changing but lets not fool ourselfs they have not changed that much. Even if they have, wouldn't a machine with ballast still out perform one without?

Just a couple of notes to help you with this, liquid doesn't compress only the air does! So when a tire hits a bump it is actually beyond it by the time it can absorb it! Whats been found is that about 3/4s the weight is needed with cast to be added to equal the liquid ballast.
Farmers today realize that they can't expect compacted ground to grow good crops.

As I always stress, set the tractor up for what the majority of the work to be done. It does take weight to move weight and where the weight is often sets as to how much can be moved. Work smart!

Quick note from past tractor pulling--- the clutches go out in far less time with filled tires vs the cast ballast. Let your imagination run with that!

Currently are largest requests for filled tires come from compact tractor purchasers. For those that we set up with cast very few have ever ask for more.
Most commonly we find over inflated tires with traction complaints from compact tractor owners. (As well as farmers.) No wonder why we need better seats! Many are not allowing the tires to work for them.

 

[ljohnson778]

Just a couple of notes to help you with this, liquid doesn't compress only the air does! So when a tire hits a bump it is actually beyond it by the time it can absorb it! Whats been found is that about 3/4s the weight is needed with cast to be added to equal the liquid ballast.
Farmers today realize that they can't expect compacted ground to grow good crops.

As I always stress, set the tractor up for what the majority of the work to be done. It does take weight to move weight and where the weight is often sets as to how much can be moved. Work smart!

Quick note from past tractor pulling--- the clutches go out in far less time with filled tires vs the cast ballast. Let your imagination run with that!

Currently are largest requests for filled tires come from compact tractor purchasers. For those that we set up with cast very few have ever ask for more.
Most commonly we find over inflated tires with traction complaints from compact tractor owners. (As well as farmers.) No wonder why we need better seats! Many are not allowing the tires to work for them.

Actually, you're kind of making the point for liquid ballast... If the clutches go out faster in filled tires vs. cast weight, then there is clearly more traction provided by the liquid ballast. The engine needs to send more power through the clutch to get the machine moving, hence greater traction(and more clutch wear). I'm not saying that a pulling tractor is a great analogy to what we are seeing in the field, just that your observation supports the theory that liquid ballast provides greater traction. Resistance to axle spin(traction) increases the load on the clutch.

 

[GPintheMitten]

My local tractor dealer suggested tubes for my Rim Guard install. He said it would make it a lot easier if I had a puncture later, easier on the repairman and easier to salvage the remaining fluid. So I got the tubes along with the Rim Guard

 

[20 20]

I just read my manual again, it clearly states use ballest either loaded tires wheel weights or a combination. It mentions loading the tires more then once.

 

[rockshaft]

Liquid may not compress, but unless your tire is completely filled with liquid ballast, any air occupying the tire will compress, regardless of where its located in the tire. Given the minimal amount of deflection you would expect running a properly inflated tire over an obstacle- I would speculate no difference in the "feel" of a liquid ballasted vs an air filled tire.

 

[art]

Actually, you're kind of making the point for liquid ballast... If the clutches go out faster in filled tires vs. cast weight, then there is clearly more traction provided by the liquid ballast. The engine needs to send more power through the clutch to get the machine moving, hence greater traction(and more clutch wear). I'm not saying that a pulling tractor is a great analogy to what we are seeing in the field, just that your observation supports the theory that liquid ballast provides greater traction. Resistance to axle spin(traction) increases the load on the clutch.

Actually quite the opposite for the most part! Larger diameter weight or mass to get started does take more power! Tractors with out the liquid and with the cast do better.

 

[art]

Liquid may not compress, but unless your tire is completely filled with liquid ballast, any air occupying the tire will compress, regardless of where its located in the tire. Given the minimal amount of deflection you would expect running a properly inflated tire over an obstacle- I would speculate no difference in the "feel" of a liquid ballasted vs an air filled tire.

Our customers relate the difference as riding on a elephant to a cat. There is only minimal deflection when using the liquid. Problem is by the time the the liquid passes the needed deflection to the air, it needed to tdo that ten feet back!!!!!!

 

[countryboycansurvive]

I have to say that my tractor rides much better after loading the tires. It seems that without loaded tires the back end wants to bounce a lot more when going over rough ground. Since I can add more weight with liquid vs. cast (looking at the limits of cast wheel weights in the manual), it costs much less, and liquid provides a lower center of gravity it's a no brainer for me, liquid it is. Another benefit is that there isn't as much inertia to overcome when bringing the tractor to a stop. Cast wheel weights are basically low speed flywheels. Now if I were a dealer I'd probably promote cast weights since I'm sure the margin is much higher.

 

[RFB]

And in different parts of the country, different practices may be the norm.

My environment is quite different than what passes for rural in the eastern U.S. My county, a relatively small one, is 1400 square miles, with a population of 3600, and not one traffic signal in the entire county.

Lots of ranching and farming. Granted, I have not met everyone, but I don't know anyone without loaded tractor tires. The only question here is what you use (mostly CC), and some rim guard types, but all loaded.