Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming?

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   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #161  
You work for the auto industry? Of course you do, clear from the start.


And don't you know, most on the right are just too stupid to understand and those dastardly conservative talk shows are dumbing us down even more......I guess we should watch MSNBC?

Uhmm, no...? Don't watch any of that bullsh*t talking heads spewing talking points cable news garbage. The internet is probably the best place to find real news these days, provided one has the patience and intellect to sort through the cr@p.

As for TV, I think the PBS newshour is about the only unbiased reporting left. "All Things Considered" on NPR is probably the best news organization out there. The only people who say it has a bias are those who stand to lose when the truth is actually reported.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #162  
Eddie,

All of the statistics in this article are linked to sources.
Big Oil's Banner Year

But I suppose you wouldn't agree with most of the logic in this article anyway?

The subsidies are not specific incentives to innovate. They are tax breaks! Simple giveaways. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide. To say that an industry needs 4 billion in incentives or else they will simply pass the cost along to us, when they made over 130 billion in profits last year alone, is ludicrous.

Big oil is concentrating wealth into their own hands, at the expense of all of us, and the continuing decline of our middle class in this country. How can anyone be on their side? It boggles the mind.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #164  
Eddie,

All of the statistics in this article are linked to sources.
Big Oil's Banner Year

But I suppose you wouldn't agree with most of the logic in this article anyway?

The subsidies are not specific incentives to innovate. They are tax breaks! Simple giveaways. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide. To say that an industry needs 4 billion in incentives or else they will simply pass the cost along to us, when they made over 130 billion in profits last year alone, is ludicrous.

Big oil is concentrating wealth into their own hands, at the expense of all of us, and the continuing decline of our middle class in this country. How can anyone be on their side? It boggles the mind.


Your links are to Center For American Progress and right next to the title it says it's a Progressive site. Do we agree that Progressive is another word for Liberal?

Center for American Progress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While short of facts, it is very accusitory of the oil industry making too much money. I've asked this before, what amount should they be allowed to make?

It also likes to forget the huge losses that they had in 2009.

Did you really not know that insentives and tax breaks are the same thing? All the so called subsidies to the oil industry are them just taking advantage of the tax laws and doing what every business does. Would you like to get rid of tax breaks? Or corporate tax breaks? What are your views on GE and GM getting tax breaks? Or should we call them subisidies? Either way, they get them too. How about subsidies to all of us?

I'm sure you're not like the evil oil companies and getting government subsidies are you? I hope you're not being hypocrytical by saying that subsidies are bad for everyone else, but then claiming tax deductions for yourself? Maybe the problem isn't the oil companies, but everyone who takes government subsidies? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Obviously I'm joking, but where do you draw the line? Why would it be bad for one, but ok for another?

As for what the oil industry needs and doesn't need. I'm not qualified to say. Are you? If we decide to target one industry, are we prepared to live with the outcome? In every case that I'm aware of, when it becomes too expensive and difficult to run a business in this country, they go to another country. Same with states, counties and cities. Maybe you've heard of this?

What I fail to comprehend is why do you want to drive the price of oil up? What proof do you have that a replacement for oil will come along when gas costs ten dollars a gallon? Can you name an instance when this has happened before?

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #165  
Don't watch any of that bullsh*t talking heads spewing talking points cable news garbage.

If you don't watch any of it, how would you know? Are you just believing something that someone has told you?

As for TV, I think the PBS newshour is about the only unbiased reporting left. "All Things Considered" on NPR is probably the best news organization out there. The only people who say it has a bias are those who stand to lose when the truth is actually reported.

Well, that says it all. Very fair and balanced. Sheesh!

Fox News is biased, but PBS is unbiased.... not at all surprising to see you using very liberal leaning internet sources for your quotes.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #166  
short on facts? I see a lot of numbers with a couple dozen citations.

I have no proof that a replacement for oil will come along. I can tell you this - reduction in personal energy consumption is going to be paramount. Cheap oil is one big party, and regardless of how we bicker about it now, or how corporations and government shape the industry over the coming decades - it ain't gonna last forever.

I would be happier to see us all run out of energy and have to live off the land and return to our roots, than for human induced climate change to raise the oceans, warm the air, and change the precipitation patterns worldwide. In my opinion a future with no cheap energy and a stable climate, is preferable to a smog-filled, dangerous weather-pattern world where we still crank out carbon emmissions. Except! That oil can't last forever, so we have to quit it anyway. It's just a question of doing it now before we ruin our climate, or doing it later once it's already too late and we have no choice.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #167  
If you don't watch any of it, how would you know? Are you just believing something that someone has told you?

Dude, one only has to watch a few minutes of any of them to immediately see that they all have their own, well crafted agenda and are happy to use cheap talking points and incendiary statements to draw ratings. They are (all) less news programs than they are ratings generators to attract advertisers. Their entire model of news dissemination is royally screwed up.

Actually probably the best way to get help analyzing these ridiculous news programs is to watch the daily show and the colbert report on comedy central, and just try to disagree with Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert's scathing commentary of how worthless they are. The Jon Stewart debates with bill Orieley (youtube them) are also very telling.

Well, that says it all. Very fair and balanced. Sheesh!

Fox News is biased, but PBS is unbiased.... not at all surprising to see you using very liberal leaning internet sources for your quotes.

Fox news is regularly called to task for their blatant misrepresentation of facts and failure to cover other important news stories that don't fit their agenda.

For one easy example (but non-scientific, I admit) of the clear disparity, try searching snopes.com or factcheck.org for the keywords "fow news". Then try it again with "pbs" and see how many respective hits you get. Fox news is much more controversial because of their rather aggressive agenda.

PBS and NPR are the only quality news outlets, in my opinion, because they don't rely upon advertising dollars to sustain their operations, and are thus not beholden in the same way. Nor are they owned by Rupert Murdoch... we don't have to talk about his motives, but they are pretty clear.
PBS and NPR actually are sustained in a large part due to (non-partisan) federal grants, and mostly in balance from individuals small donations. I like that funding model a LOT better than frequent interruptions for prescription drugs, oil and energy companies, and political ads.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #168  
Could be some of this is correct?? I did read that the oil fields in saudia arabia Are in trouble . The Solution was to Pump seawater into the well for continued production...Will they Own the US, by the time the last gallon dribles out? Food for Thought?
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #169  
I'll readily admit Fox News leans right in their editorializing. In my view, the rest of TV news leans left in theirs.

(Tell me you don't believe that Stewart and Colbert are fair and balanced???)

PBS and NPR actually are sustained in a large part due to (non-partisan) federal grants, and mostly in balance from individuals small donations. I like that funding model a LOT better than frequent interruptions for prescription drugs, oil and energy companies, and political ads.

You prefer news funded by the state. And you think that is a better model for ensuring unbiased news. OK....
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #170  
Remember that the first cars were electric. It is easier to make money from oil and no oil executive is going to allow the government to provide money for the competition. They have millions if not billions of dollars to launch a counter attack to protect their profits.
Well, there is this little factoid about fossil fuels beating the tar out of other fuels in the kw per cubic foot department, but lets just ignore that inconvenient truth...

Aaron Z
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #171  
Yup. Do you remember the TV ad where the guy drives his volt to the gas station to get a soda or whatever, and everyone keeps asking 'hey, I thought this was an electric car? what are you doin' at a gas station?' They played that like 'oh yeah, it'll go all day on electric, it just sips gas sometimes'.

How about, 'actually, it's just another gas compact, that can also go around the block a few times on the batteries. Gotta keep gas in it!'

I don't understand the concept of this vehicle. At all. Why put all that extra gear (batteries, electric motor etc) and not give the vehicle the capability to recharge itself while running on the gas motor? We should buy it 'cuz it looks cool, it's got a hip name (Volt!) and you can plug it in?

Yeah and a lot of people bought into Obama because they thought he was 'cool'.



.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #172  
So you (GM) cancel a car which has a waiting list of people who are prepared to pay your lease rate (without ever having ownership) yet claim that people wouldn't buy it ?

I was on a waiting list for the Smart when they were first introduced for over a year and I couldn't get one. I suppose no-body wants one and they should cancel that program too. Then I was on a waiting list for the 2009 Jetta Tdi for nearly a year and the only reason we finally got one was because of the economic crisis allowed production to catch up to demand. I suppose VW should cancel that model too. Last year, we drove it from MI to Key West FL and back for $280 worth of fuel. Try that in your SUV.

No-one is expecting to change your mind, but for those of us who differ in our opinion, allow us to have choices too. I still think that the Volt could not make it because it tries to do too much. We need a Leaf with 1/4 the HP, half the battery and have it shed about 1/3 of its weight. Then it would be a lot cheaper too. Not everything has to move like a dragster.


From the Wikipedia site you mentioned:
In late 2003, General Motors, then led by CEO Rick Wagoner, officially canceled the EV1 program.[5][29] GM stated that it could not sell enough of the cars to make the EV1 profitable.[30] In addition, the cost of maintaining a parts supply and service infrastructure for the 15-year minimum required by the state of California meant that existing leases would not be renewed, and all the cars would have to be returned to GM's possession.
--------
In light of falling car sales later in the decade, as the world oil and financial crises began to take hold, opinions of the EV1 program began to change. In 2006, former GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner stated that his worst decision during his tenure at GM was "axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids.
----------
The documentary Who Killed The Electric Car? presents evidence that GM stuck with plans to cancel and scrap the car, despite apparent public interest. The film includes footage of GM employees on the EV1 team discussing a waiting list of people interested in leasing or purchasing EV1s. In 2003, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times attempted to lease an EV1 from GM, but was told that he "was welcome to join their waiting list, along with undisclosed others, for an indefinite period of time, but [his] chances of getting a car were slim."[33] Critics of GM and proponents of electric vehicles claim that GM feared the emergence of electrical vehicle technology because the cars might cut into their profitable spare parts market, as electric cars have far fewer moving parts than combustion vehicles. Critics further charged that when CARB, in response to the EV1, mandated that electric vehicles makeup a certain percentage of all automakers' sales, GM came to fear that the EV1 might encourage unwanted regulation in other states. GM battled against CARB regulations, going as far as to sue CARB in federal court.[15]

Speaking of the Smart Car, they don't seem that smart to me. About the same mileage as a Honda Civic for more money, and half the room.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #173  
See what I mean? People who make 'exspurt' comments have absolutely no idea about how the vehicle works, AT ALL. ! Amazing !

Do you know that modern railroad locomotives don't run on steam any more? Ever see the guy running a house room air conditioner in the side window off of a generator in the back? Do you wonder why didn't he just run a belt off the generator motor to a pulley on the transmission?

Do you believe that a windmill generator can power an electric car until the brakes burn up?

You knew that the Apollo rockets never actually went to the moon, right? It was all staged in Arizona.

No wonder in my mind why people in other tech savvy countries think we are idiots. We ARE !

So why is it that its a good thing for oil prices to rise in this country? (Or do I have to quote a foreign student to have you believe the answer?)

And about that Phish carburetor...

BTW did you know that most volt users are actually using so little gas on thei daily trips that gm has to install a Sta-Bil tank and injector into the fuel tank so that the gas doesn't turn into fruit Jello? Who would have known?
 

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   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #174  
Why do the only people who like the Volt live in MI, drive something other then a Volt, and think they are the only smart ones on here?

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #175  
Why do the only people who like the Volt live in MI, drive something other then a Volt, and think they are the only smart ones on here?Eddie

Because it is built in Michigan?

The Volt has really taken a beating in this thread and I've read a lot of off the wall opinions that have zero credibility, and, the non-stop attacks on Obama who, like it or not, is our President and deserves the respect the office offers. Just so you know, I'm an independent conservative with in the region of common sense.

All BS aside, the Volt met its design goals and the Volt works as designed. You folks may not agree on its design or design goals and that is fine, but if you are going to criticize, then criticize the source and not the result.

Yes, it is too expensive, yes, the batteries will fail after X number of recharges and the battery pack is expensive. Yes, the Volt will meet or exceed 40 miles of travel under battery power in the correct conditions.

Actual Volt travel off of electric is around 33 miles in south east Michigan because the heater, wipers, exterior lighting all take power away from the battery.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #176  
The main reason the Volt and other electric cars have failed is because they don't do what every electric user and anyone else would want in an electric car, they still want a car. It's become clear to all but the most fanatic that there is no such thing as alternative fuels. The world runs on oil and will for the foreseeable future. And with global warming and all that proving out to be a hoax there is no more scare about using oil. The only issue now is do we use US or someone else's oil. When you developed an electric car that will have a range of 600+ miles between charges with AC or heat on, and recharge in less then 6 minutes without major modifications to your home you might have something. Add to that the battery must weigh less than 100lbs and it's production and disposal can't pollute like current batteries. All the fire hazards must go away too. Now add a battery life of 200k miles and you have a car that begins to compete with current modern high pressure diesel cars. There is just no good reason to have an electric car, they have no advantages, and everyone can clearly see that.

HS
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #177  
Because it is built in Michigan?

The Volt has really taken a beating in this thread and I've read a lot of off the wall opinions that have zero credibility, and, the non-stop attacks on Obama who, like it or not, is our President and deserves the respect the office offers. Just so you know, I'm an independent conservative with in the region of common sense.

Call yourself what you want, Obama went into Office saying he was going to do one thing, and has done just about the exact opposite. Hillary Clinton was the one who so proudly stated that it was our right to critisize our leaders. With Obama, he's earned everyones critisism.

Since you are a fan of the Volt, why should anyody spend the money to buy it with what else is out there? It's kind of like the $50 light bulb that the Obama administration is trying to sell us.

Obama's $50 light bulb: 'Too pricey'? - Yahoo! News

Who wants it and why would anybody pay for it?

The reason we don't like the Volt has nothing to do with a hatred of electric cars. Nobody cares about electric cars!!!!!

We dont want out government trying to decide what we should buy or forcing manufacturers to build something that nobody wants. If and when they come out with something that we want, we will buy it. Nobody is buying it for a reason. While you think it's because we all hate the Volt and are too dumb to understand how it works, what you don't get is that we don't care how it works.

I want to see results that make sense financially. It's just that simple. Paying $40,000 for a car that doesn't perform as well as cars selling for less then that amount doesn't make any sense. And that's exactly why all of you who like it so much will never buy one either!!!!

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #178  
houstonscott said:
The main reason the Volt and other electric cars have failed is because they don't do what every electric user and anyone else would want in an electric car, they still want a car. It's become clear to all but the most fanatic that there is no such thing as alternative fuels. The world runs on oil and will for the foreseeable future. And with global warming and all that proving out to be a hoax there is no more scare about using oil. The only issue now is do we use US or someone else's oil. When you developed an electric car that will have a range of 600+ miles between charges with AC or heat on, and recharge in less then 6 minutes without major modifications to your home you might have something. Add to that the battery must weigh less than 100lbs and it's production and disposal can't pollute like current batteries. All the fire hazards must go away too. Now add a battery life of 200k miles and you have a car that begins to compete with current modern high pressure diesel cars. There is just no good reason to have an electric car, they have no advantages, and everyone can clearly see that.

HS

Oil is too valuable to waste for transportation purposes.

My wife drives eight miles each way to work, sometimes she will go shopping or do other errands on her way home. She, or I, will shuttle our daughter around, etc. Total miles much less than the 100 miles the all-electric Nissan Leaf claims. And about 95% of the time less than what the Volt offers all-electric. Our next car will be electric. The Volt offers great technology but costs more than we care to spend. We'll get a cheaper electric-only vehicle.

But we also take long trips, I drove 110 miles round trip to work, towing a trailer, etc. For those uses we'll keep our Diesel VW Passat wagon.

I'm a retired truck driver but still look forward to natural gas powered Class 8 trucks like the Cummins' CEO promises in five years.

We can let the oil companies keep monopolizing transportation fuel by letting them buy up all the electric stations they want. They already control most natural gas. Everything will be just as it is now with the oil companies and the speculators screwing us over except that we will have less global warming and fewer dollars going to the Middle East.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #179  
EddieWalker said:
Call yourself what you want, Obama went into Office saying he was going to do one thing, and has done just about the exact opposite. Hillary Clinton was the one who so proudly stated that it was our right to critisize our leaders. With Obama, he's earned everyones critisism.

Since you are a fan of the Volt, why should anyody spend the money to buy it with what else is out there? It's kind of like the $50 light bulb that the Obama administration is trying to sell us.

Obama's $50 light bulb: 'Too pricey'? - Yahoo! News

Who wants it and why would anybody pay for it?

The reason we don't like the Volt has nothing to do with a hatred of electric cars. Nobody cares about electric cars!!!!!

We dont want out government trying to decide what we should buy or forcing manufacturers to build something that nobody wants. If and when they come out with something that we want, we will buy it. Nobody is buying it for a reason. While you think it's because we all hate the Volt and are too dumb to understand how it works, what you don't get is that we don't care how it works.

I want to see results that make sense financially. It's just that simple. Paying $40,000 for a car that doesn't perform as well as cars selling for less then that amount doesn't make any sense. And that's exactly why all of you who like it so much will never buy one either!!!!

Eddie

So true Eddy, it appears many have attended that Al Gore school of "Do as I say, Not what I do". ;-)
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #180  
Eddie,

All of the statistics in this article are linked to sources.
Big Oil's Banner Year

But I suppose you wouldn't agree with most of the logic in this article anyway?

The subsidies are not specific incentives to innovate. They are tax breaks! Simple giveaways. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide. To say that an industry needs 4 billion in incentives or else they will simply pass the cost along to us, when they made over 130 billion in profits last year alone, is ludicrous.

Big oil is concentrating wealth into their own hands, at the expense of all of us, and the continuing decline of our middle class in this country. How can anyone be on their side? It boggles the mind.

How can it be a giveaway when the "Recipients" are not receiving?

All business has must use established accounting principals that cover acquisition, exploration, maintenance, obsolescence, depreciation and loss...

Saying a business is receiving a giveaway colors the fact that they are still paying taxes.

I don't and never have seen a cable show... never had cable.

California exports oil and refined products worldwide... part of the President's plan is too provide incentives for the US to increase exports...

I watch my fuel use very carefully... you won't catch me driving the big truck to go grocery shopping...

That said... every individual has the opportunity to invest in "Big Oil" if they so choose and just about everyone that has ever been in a mutual fund is invested in "Big Oil"

Government makes far more per gallon than Big Oil by a multiple factor.
 
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