Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming?

[TheGoose]

And yet I see a lot of "average" people around here driving big jacked up diesel trucks who don't do any pulling or other type of work.

The truck is a social status symbol to them, and they pay $20-30K over the cost of a regular truck to get it. The idea of the volt just doesn't seem that outlandish to me, especially as gas gets closer to $4 a gallon and electricity seems to be going down due to low natural gas prices.

The only problem is that the average person isn't rich, and it's very unlikely that the Volt would have ever been affordable for them. As for the green factor, it's only an illusion. Heck, even rich people with money to burn weren't buying the Volt because they know it's a red herring.

Chevy Volt not selling - YouTube

 

[MasseyWV]

The idea of the volt just doesn't seem that outlandish to me

The idea of an electric car is a good one, but despite what they would have us believe, it seems that current battery technology isn't quite ready for most wide-spread practical applications.

If they produced an all-electric vehicle that could pull or haul 10,000 pounds (or more), and drive 500 miles on a single charge, but only require a short time to recharge, yet be affordable enough for the average American to buy, I'm sure it would be a huge success.

In the mean time, big oil is our only viable option, regardless of the price of fuel.

 

[TheGoose]

So, going by your logic, how practical was a "home computer" in the 1950's?

Computers were big and slow and expensive at first. They evolved, got smaller, cheaper, faster.

The only thing lacking in the electric cars are the batteries themselves. I find it plausable that the battery technology will evolve and come down, just like solar panels have gotten better and cheaper with time.

It will happen. Not next year, but 10-20 years down the road I can see electrics being competitive with gas.

 

[two_bit_score]

The idea of an electric car is a good one, but despite what they would have us believe, it seems that current battery technology isn't quite ready for most wide-spread practical applications.

If they produced an all-electric vehicle that could pull or haul 10,000 pounds (or more), and drive 500 miles on a single charge, but only require a short time to recharge, yet be affordable enough for the average American to buy, I'm sure it would be a huge success.

In the mean time, big oil is our only viable option, regardless of the price of fuel.

I was driving on Mopac in Austin, Tx this afternoon and passed a couple who were in a Volt. The thought occurred to me that I wonder if they feel foolish driving that car with all the negative press out on it? Next I wondered if they spent their own money on it. Then I wondered how they could not feel foolish if they spent their own money on it.



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[TheGoose]

I'm sure all the people driving those run away toyota's felt foolish with all the negative press on them too.

Is there any other press besides negative press?

 

[MasseyWV]

The only thing lacking in the electric cars are the batteries themselves. I find it plausable that the battery technology will evolve and come down, just like solar panels have gotten better and cheaper with time.

The price of the batteries isn't the biggest problem, it's their safety and longevity.

 

[two_bit_score]

I'm sure all the people driving those run away toyota's felt foolish with all the negative press on them too.

Is there any other press besides negative press?

The Volt was getting great positive press in the beginning. Until everyone figured out what a con job had been pulled.



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[crash325]

And yet I see a lot of "average" people around here driving big jacked up diesel trucks who don't do any pulling or other type of work.

The truck is a social status symbol to them, and they pay $20-30K over the cost of a regular truck to get it. The idea of the volt just doesn't seem that outlandish to me, especially as gas gets closer to $4 a gallon and electricity seems to be going down due to low natural gas prices.

You need to do a little re-thinking. The fools that you are calling "average people". Ain't average. Pretty sure most folks buy a vehicle that fits their needs with little or no modifications.

Didn't see where you live. But around here the price of electricity has not gone down at all. The Co-Op even adds a Fuel Sure Charge (sounds better than a rate change.) and some of their power comes from solar.

My truck a 4x4 has nothing to do with status. Actually needed now and then just to get to town.

A Chevy Volt would not even get me to town on it's batteries. Talk about a "Status Symbol", there would be no reason to buy one unless you want to show people you have enough money to throw away.

 

[TheGoose]

Well, I'm not saying that it's like this everywhere in the USA.

But certainly around here (Houston TX area) there are a lot of jacked up 4x4 diesel trucks that are for nothing but show. I have several people just in my own family who have them, yet pull nothing and do no work. And diesel here is about $3.80/gallon and climbing.

Understand I'm not ripping them. That's the freedom of choice. Just like they choose to drive a truck that is un-necessary it's other peoples choice to go in the other direction.

You will never make the economic case of a pure electric and probably even for hybrids like the prius.

What is the price for a kwh of electricity in AZ? Around here we were averaging $.11-.14 per KWH a few years ago but now it seems to have dropped to about $.11-.09 per kwh.

We are un-regulated here and prices flucuate based on NG pricing mostly. At one time we paid more here than almost anywhere else in the state. A parting gift from Enron.

You need to do a little re-thinking. The fools that you are calling "average people". Ain't average. Pretty sure most folks buy a vehicle that fits their needs with little or no modifications.

Didn't see where you live. But around here the price of electricity has not gone down at all. The Co-Op even adds a Fuel Sure Charge (sounds better than a rate change.) and some of their power comes from solar.

My truck a 4x4 has nothing to do with status. Actually needed now and then just to get to town.

A Chevy Volt would not even get me to town on it's batteries. Talk about a "Status Symbol", there would be no reason to buy one unless you want to show people you have enough money to throw away.

 

[powerpace]

I do remember a time when Japanese "rice burners" were introduced in the U.S. "No one I know will buy one. Built cheap. No parts available. No one will repair them. Can't keep up on the Freeway." I heard it all.
Remember the VW bug, same story.

There are over 2,000,000 Toyota, Prius worldwide. First sold in 1997.
I drive a Prius since 2008. 45 to 50 mpg all day everyday, freeway and city.
170,000 miles.
The Dodge 1500 is parked most of the time.

 

[scrappy isb67]

Yep, crazy.....

The math will never work. My niece got a base model Civic, auto tranny, power locks, power windows, CD, and sunroof. It gets 35+ mpg on the highway and has averaged 33 mpg since day one. Cost about $18,000 At that rate and $4 per gallon gas she can drive the car for 100,000 miles for $12,000. That puts the total cost at $30,000 for the car.

The Volt at $41,000 even if the gas and electricity to recharge it were free would never come close. Heck, I went to publik skool and can figure that out.

My neighbor does not get it either. I talk about him all the time on here. Nice guy but just went out and bought a VW Diesel. $33,000 and its averaged 39 mpg in the two weeks they have had it. Yes, that is much better than the 15 mpg the Lincoln Aviator they traded in on it got but it was also paid off and owed them nothing. 39 mpg is nice economy but it burns $4.20 per gallon diesel. Thats about $.11 per mile for fuel. That same Civic mentioned above would get 33 mpg with $4 gas would cost $.12 per mile. So at a penny per mile difference that VW diesel will take 1,500,000 miles to break even.:confused2:


Chris

What was the VW? a Jetta or Passat? for $33K, I am guessing a Passat(or they got took by the dealer for a Jetta) Neither car is in the same class as the Civic. I have owned both an '06 civic and a '10 Jetta and there is no comparison between the 2. The Civic felt like an econobox compared to the Jetta. The Civic was cheap looking and feeling. I also own a Passat and it is even more luxury oriented than the Jetta.

 

[two_bit_score]

Well, I'm not saying that it's like this everywhere in the USA.

But certainly around here (Houston TX area) there are a lot of jacked up 4x4 diesel trucks that are for nothing but show. I have several people just in my own family who have them, yet pull nothing and do no work. And diesel here is about $3.80/gallon and climbing.

Understand I'm not ripping them. That's the freedom of choice. Just like they choose to drive a truck that is un-necessary it's other peoples choice to go in the other direction.

You will never make the economic case of a pure electric and probably even for hybrids like the prius.

What is the price for a kwh of electricity in AZ? Around here we were averaging $.11-.14 per KWH a few years ago but now it seems to have dropped to about $.11-.09 per kwh.

We are un-regulated here and prices flucuate based on NG pricing mostly. At one time we paid more here than almost anywhere else in the state. A parting gift from Enron.

The owners of those trucks bought them with their own money. The taxpayers did not subsidize each truck $7,500 or more just to put it on the market.


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[powerpace]

The owners of those trucks bought them with their own money. The taxpayers did not subsidize each truck $7,500 or more just to put it on the market.


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No the trucks may not be subsidized by public money. But how many of those trucks were made outside the U.S. That's like a subsidy to the manufacturer. Cheap labor to build, still sold at a high cost. Not to mention not being built by a U.S. citizen that would pay tax on his earnings. There is your subsidy in a different form.

 

[Diamondpilot]

What was the VW? a Jetta or Passat? for $33K, I am guessing a Passat(or they got took by the dealer for a Jetta) Neither car is in the same class as the Civic. I have owned both an '06 civic and a '10 Jetta and there is no comparison between the 2. The Civic felt like an econobox compared to the Jetta. The Civic was cheap looking and feeling. I also own a Passat and it is even more luxury oriented than the Jetta.

Its a Passat. The point is he bought on mpg and bought what was on the lot. He wanted the Jetta but none were available with a TDI in our area.

Don't get me wrong, its a very nice car. He let me drive it to town and back. Just questioning the math.

Chris

 

[crash325]

No the trucks may not be subsidized by public money. But how many of those trucks were made outside the U.S. That's like a subsidy to the manufacturer. Cheap labor to build, still sold at a high cost. Not to mention not being built by a U.S. citizen that would pay tax on his earnings. There is your subsidy in a different form. Maybe you have forgotten there is such a thing as Import Tax.

What full size 4X4 truck is made outside the US and imported???

Most in this area are Ford, Chevy & Dodge. Once in a while you will see a Toyota or Nissan I may be mistaken but think they are built in the US.

And most of them are Pre the Gov. buying the auto company's.

Goose's thing about Average People is so far off base. Sounds like a bunch of young bloods having fun and if it's their own $$ it is actually none of his business or mine.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Its a Passat. The point is he bought on mpg and bought what was on the lot. He wanted the Jetta but none were available with a TDI in our area.

Don't get me wrong, its a very nice car. He let me drive it to town and back. Just questioning the math.

Chris

The "math" should have been done a Passat TDI vs. gas-fed Passat, not a Honda Civic. The TDI Passat costs $2270 more for the diesel option, and according to Car and Driver's estimate, would take approx. 60,000 miles to pay off the cost difference through fuel savings.

I lifted this from Car and Driver 2012 Passat TDI review:

"So besides cost, why haven't automakers rushed to crowd in on VW's family-diesel monopoly? We suspect carmakers would rather make hybrids as they're more buzzworthy  to both government bureaucrats and corporate marketing types looking to boost their green creds. Meanwhile, the TDI quietly achieves something we have yet to experience in a hybrid better-than-promised fuel economy. It's the sort of thing we wish other car companies were eager to copy."

If my Passat TDI only got 6.1 L per 100 km combined, which is what the Prius is rated for, I would be pi$$ed! Gas guzzler!

 

[Diamondpilot]

The "math" should have been done a Passat TDI vs. gas-fed Passat, not a Honda Civic. The TDI Passat costs $2270 more for the diesel option, and according to Car and Driver's estimate, would take approx. 60,000 miles to pay off the cost difference through fuel savings.

I lifted this from Car and Driver 2012 Passat TDI review:

"So besides cost, why haven't automakers rushed to crowd in on VW's family-diesel monopoly? We suspect carmakers would rather make hybrids as they're more buzzworthy  to both government bureaucrats and corporate marketing types looking to boost their green creds. Meanwhile, the TDI quietly achieves something we have yet to experience in a hybrid better-than-promised fuel economy. It's the sort of thing we wish other car companies were eager to copy."

If my Passat TDI only got 6.1 L per 100 km combined, which is what the Prius is rated for, I would be pi$$ed! Gas guzzler!

The math was off because he set out to buy a fuel efficient, cheap to own and maintain car. They bought the first thing shinny without crunching the real numbers.

Just look at the $600 cost for the required 40,000 tranny fluid change. I can do it for about $200 in parts but that is not the point. If they wanted cheap and reliable while getting about 39 mpg the Civic or comparable are the answer.

Chris

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

The math was off because he set out to buy a fuel efficient, cheap to own and maintain car. They bought the first thing shinny without crunching the real numbers.
Chris

So instead, he ended up with a fuel efficient, cheap to own and maintain car that has more power, more room, quieter, more luxurious, gets better fuel economy, better resale and is WAY nicer to drive! :thumbsup:

 

[houstonscott]

So instead, he ended up with a fuel efficient, cheap to own and maintain car that has more power, more room, quieter, more luxurious, gets better fuel economy, better resale and is WAY nicer to drive! :thumbsup:

I did the same thing one more level above VW. I own a BMW 335d. 425 foot pounds of torque and well over 40mpg on freeway, I average 37mpg in mixed driving. And then there is the BMW part, very nice car. Nice rolling along getting 42mpg knowing you can out accelerate just about any car on the road to 100mph.

HS

 

[Monster5601]

I looked up Monster5601 and found the words HEAD BURIED IN THE SAND.....

I'm getting pretty tired of home schooling Union Fan boys, but here I'll do it one more time.

Thank you for posting the links that prove there was a fire in a North Carolina garage that housed a Chevy Volt.

You missed one link though, allow me:

"In the case of a fire in the garage of a North Carolina home where a Chevrolet Volt was being charged at the time, the Volt has been proven not guilty."

Chevy Volt Not the Cause of Garage Fire Says Fire Marshall | AutoGuide.com News