Water Filled Tyres on a Hydrostatic?

[CPM]

I've been given a couple of different opinions from 2 different dealers as to whether I should fill my industrial tyres with water.

One dealer says never fill tyres on a tractor with Hydrostatic transmission, the other says "it shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, we always fill them with water".

What's the truth here? I'd like the added benefit from the stability with the water but I don't want to put "too much strain" on the hydrostatic system...

 

[tractchores]

Never heard not to fill them, many dealers always fill them if the tractor has a fel. It ads a lot of stability and helps with traction. Generally the fluid is something that won't freeze and is non toxic like beat juice, washer fluid or rv antifreeze

 

[retiredmgn]

"it shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, we always fill them with water".

What he said.
Where's QLD? Get cold there?

 

[CPM]

"it shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, we always fill them with water".

What he said.
Where's QLD? Get cold there?

Nope, doesn't get cold here. Wont freeze, anyway.

 

[SSdoxie]

Mine is hydrostatic and the Owner's manual specifically states for loader capacity to fill the rear tires and hang 650# on the 3pt or no fluid and 880# weight.

How would filled tires versus carrying extra counter weight have any different affect on the transmission? Weight is resistance when starting to move and is inertia when trying to stop regardless of where it is placed on the tractor.

 

[CPM]

Mine is hydrostatic and the Owner's manual specifically states for loader capacity to fill the rear tires and hang 650# on the 3pt or no fluid and 880# weight.

How would filled tires versus carrying extra counter weight have any different affect on the transmission? Weight is resistance when starting to move and is inertia when trying to stop regardless of where it is placed on the tractor.

Apparently it was due to the momentum of the fluid inside the tyre once the tractor itself is stopped. But if the manual recommends it... I don't know why the guy would be saying it. Does it cost them extra to fill?

 

[powerpace]

Apparently it was due to the momentum of the fluid inside the tyre once the tractor itself is stopped. But if the manual recommends it... I don't know why the guy would be saying it. Does it cost them extra to fill?

Another point that he didn't know what he was talking about. Even with the tire filled to the recommended level. You would get just as much extra momentum from hanging weights or 3pt ballast.

 

[CPM]

Another point that he didn't know what he was talking about. Even with the tire filled to the recommended level. You would get just as much extra momentum from hanging weights or 3pt ballast.

He seemed to be suggesting that momentum continues with the fluid, whereas with a weight, it stops when the tractor stops - the fluid keeps turning...

 

[SockPuppet]

He seemed to be suggesting that momentum continues with the fluid, whereas with a weight, it stops when the tractor stops - the fluid keeps turning...

Actually, the fluid has no direct connection with the tires/wheels so it really doesn't matter what it does. Now if you have wheel weights, they continue to want to turn.

Fluid: low center of gravity and no rotating mass. No load on axles.

Wheel weights: Heavy rotating mass. Takes extra power to start and stop them. No load on axles.

Suitcase weights or similar: higher center of gravity, no rotating mass, more load on axles.

Each type has it's place on a tractor. ie: loaded tires will help hold the rear end down when using a FEL but will not take any stress off the front axle whereas rear ballast hanging off the 3PH will use the rear axle as a fulcrum and reduce stress on the front axle.

 

[CPM]

Actually, the fluid has no direct connection with the tires/wheels so it really doesn't matter what it does... Fluid: low center of gravity and no rotating mass. No load on axles.

Do they not completely fill the tyres then? There must be some friction with the tyres, or is there an inner tube? The water will still be a rotating mass, although I guess more evenly distributed compared to a wheel weight on the rim (not that I've seen one, just guessing).

I assumed he was referring to an action that would be similar to a jumping bean - a sloshing inside the tyre causing some "wobbles" until settled down - if not completely filled.

 

[tractchores]

Do they not completely fill the tyres then? There must be some friction with the tyres, or is there an inner tube? The water will still be a rotating mass, although I guess more evenly distributed compared to a wheel weight on the rim (not that I've seen one, just guessing).

I assumed he was referring to an action that would be similar to a jumping bean - a sloshing inside the tyre causing some "wobbles" until settled down - if not completely filled.

Think about it, we're talking about a tractor that's meant to pull, push and lift very heavy loads. If the hst couldn't handle fluid weight in the wheels (which would weigh a fraction of tbe tractors capacity) then there would be a serious issue. Heavy loads make the tires want to rotate if you stop too. The tires need to overcome that momentum to start and stop. Unfortnately unless we're talking lawn tractors your dealer seems to be under informed.

 

[TripleR]

We fill ours and as mentioned, it is addressed in the Operator Manual.

 

[ruralruss]

They do not get filled to the top. If you did that you might as well replace them with steel wheels. You would also be giving your axles high shock loads. Manual says 75% full or just to the top of the inner rim. You will need to lower the pressure a bit because of shock loading as well. Good ideal to use anti freeze or beet juice for corrosion control even if it will never freeze.

 

[RaydaKub]

Do they not completely fill the tyres then? There must be some friction with the tyres, or is there an inner tube? The water will still be a rotating mass, although I guess more evenly distributed compared to a wheel weight on the rim (not that I've seen one, just guessing).

I assumed he was referring to an action that would be similar to a jumping bean - a sloshing inside the tyre causing some "wobbles" until settled down - if not completely filled.

We are talking about a tractor here. If you're on the road traveling between work sites, you might have some slosh that could cause you to need to use the brakes just a tad more (or a very short push against the hst as you slow down), but it's not going to be all that much. If you are working the tractor (FEL work or pulling a hog), you can count the revolutions of the wheel. The momentum of the fluid is going to be negligible.

 

[TripleR]

I routinely run tractors between farms on gravel and pavement and have never noticed any ill effects from filed tires. We have some with fluid and some without.

 

[oldnslo]

If the tires are filled to the proper level you will have no issues at normal highway travel speeds. If they are only partially filled the fluid can and will start traveling around with the tire at a given speed like a weight and this makes for a very exciting ride.

Another possible issue can be if the hubs are splines where they fit onto the axle, like the older John Deere 112 ,212, etc riding lawn mowers. On these the extra weight and or slosh would cause the splines in the hubs to wear faster than with no added weight.

Not sure what model of tractor the OP was asking about so this might have been an issue on the model he was looking at.

Roy

 

[SockPuppet]

Do they not completely fill the tyres then? There must be some friction with the tyres, or is there an inner tube? The water will still be a rotating mass, although I guess more evenly distributed compared to a wheel weight on the rim (not that I've seen one, just guessing).

I assumed he was referring to an action that would be similar to a jumping bean - a sloshing inside the tyre causing some "wobbles" until settled down - if not completely filled.

It would be pretty hard to get them full even if you tried. There's always an air space that's higher than the stem. Many people do use tubes.

The fluid is only flowing around inside the tire, it's not physically attached to it. If it were in compartments or if the tire/wheel had vanes (like a turbine) it would add to the rotating mass. As it is in normal tires, only the friction of the fluid against the inside of the tire is trying to change it from whatever state it's in, either in motion or at rest. We're talking about fluid with the viscosity of water and very low speeds. If the fluid were more like tar, it would become rotating mass.

 

[art]

Actually, the fluid has no direct connection with the tires/wheels so it really doesn't matter what it does. Now if you have wheel weights, they continue to want to turn.

Fluid: low center of gravity and no rotating mass. No load on axles.

Wheel weights: Heavy rotating mass. Takes extra power to start and stop them. No load on axles.

Suitcase weights or similar: higher center of gravity, no rotating mass, more load on axles.

Wrong on the load of fluid in tires!!!!! The only difference is that the weights are in close to the axle and the fluid is out further.
With tractor pulling we found that trying to rotate the extra mass that far out took clutches out faster! Worst part, they didn't perform as well loaded!

 

[SockPuppet]

Well, the speed of the tires in pulling is a whole different animal. I still maintain that in normal tractor work it may take effort to move the actual mass of the fluid but not to get it spinning.

 

[skspurling]

Do they not completely fill the tyres then? There must be some friction with the tyres, or is there an inner tube? The water will still be a rotating mass, although I guess more evenly distributed compared to a wheel weight on the rim (not that I've seen one, just guessing).

I assumed he was referring to an action that would be similar to a jumping bean - a sloshing inside the tyre causing some "wobbles" until settled down - if not completely filled.

You never fill the tires 100%. you get the stem at the top of the rim and fill it to that level. Filling it all the way can kill your tires because the fluid dosen't compress. Even then it doesn't slosh around like you think. Tractors don't start and stop that quick. There's not enough friction between the inside of the tire and the fluid to stir it up. I like having loaded tires. I think it is better than other types of weights, and the beat juice is heavier than water.