Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[SPYDERLK]

In most well designed hybrid battterys the discharge is not allowed to drop below 30% "Prius". I don't understand your "Hybrid doesnt help past the initial battery depletion except momentary acceleration"., statement.

It means that it doesnt help at all in cruise because the electric is totally parasitic to the engine. The batt can store engine generated charge for quick combined source acceleration, sparing some engine contribution if youre prudent. This gains a little, but thats not cruise. Where hybrids shine is in the stop and go extreme. Regen braking to augment charge and shared source accel allowing engine to be run as efficiently as the computer can manage is where a hybrid can deliver. ... Cruise: no gain at all.
larry

 

[IslandTractor]

It means that it doesnt help at all in cruise because the electric is totally parasitic to the engine. The batt can store engine generated charge for quick combined source acceleration, sparing some engine contribution if youre prudent. This gains a little, but thats not cruise. Where hybrids shine is in the stop and go extreme. Regen braking to augment charge and shared source accel allowing engine to be run as efficiently as the computer can manage is where a hybrid can deliver. ... Cruise: no gain at all.
larry

That is half the story. The other half is that because the battery/electric motors provide assist power with acceleration, the engine can be tuned to be more economical (Atkinson? cycle) at highway speeds. Something about the timing I believe. The electric assist makes up for the missing torque which is basically only needed in relatively short bursts. So, most hybrids are more economical at highway speeds than equivalent performing gas engine models. They are better at cruise though that is not generally their main strength.

 

[SPYDERLK]

55mpg isnt bad, but when you consider the added cost of being a "hybrid" and added weight........

Why not just buy a regular VW diesel, like a jetta TDI and have no problems getting 50+, and never have to worry about the "hybrid" stuff????

I think that is why they arent selling. Just not enough of a MPG improvement to justify the added cost.

And I too would like to know how they got the 131mpg number. But specs can be made to say whatever you want right?? Heck, I can drive my 8000lb 4x4 DRW truck down a hill and let off the pedal and reset the trip at the same time. I have no problems maintaining 99MPG (which is as high as it will read) for a good 2 miles

But punch the accel and get the engine and motors all gruntin and its a hot car ... for a minute or so.
...Im betting theyre getting the big mileage by eating the battery on the test loop like I described .. or they have a Mobius loop thats all downhill.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

It means that it doesnt help at all in cruise because the electric is totally parasitic to the engine. The batt can store engine generated charge for quick combined source acceleration, sparing some engine contribution if youre prudent. This gains a little, but thats not cruise. Where hybrids shine is in the stop and go extreme. Regen braking to augment charge and shared source accel allowing engine to be run as efficiently as the computer can manage is where a hybrid can deliver. ... Cruise: no gain at all.
larry

That is half the story. The other half is that because the battery/electric motors provide assist power with acceleration, the engine can be tuned to be more economical (Atkinson? cycle) at highway speeds. Something about the timing I believe. The electric assist makes up for the missing torque which is basically only needed in relatively short bursts. So, most hybrids are more economical at highway speeds than equivalent performing gas engine models. They are better at cruise though that is not generally their main strength.

Yes, but pls show me where I didnt imply that.
larry

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, but pls show me where I didnt imply that.
larry

"Cruise, no gain at all". Not trying to nitpick just clarifying that the hybrid system (even if not the battery powered part of it) is in fact more efficient than a regular gas engine at cruising speeds. Not disagreeing with the fact that stop and go is where they excel.

 

[powerpace]

That is half the story. The other half is that because the battery/electric motors provide assist power with acceleration, the engine can be tuned to be more economical (Atkinson? cycle) at highway speeds. Something about the timing I believe. The electric assist makes up for the missing torque which is basically only needed in relatively short bursts. So, most hybrids are more economical at highway speeds than equivalent performing gas engine models. They are better at cruise though that is not generally their main strength.

That is right. Which is why you can have a smaller motor and a smaller battery pack (120 pounds).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5J_ku5GIA&feature=related]Plug-in Prius with Lithium-ion batteries - YouTube[/ame]

 

[powerpace]

55mpg isnt bad, but when you consider the added cost of being a "hybrid" and added weight........

Why not just buy a regular VW diesel, like a jetta TDI and have no problems getting 50+, and never have to worry about the "hybrid" stuff????

I think that is why they arent selling. Just not enough of a MPG improvement to justify the added cost.

And I too would like to know how they got the 131mpg number. But specs can be made to say whatever you want right?? Heck, I can drive my 8000lb 4x4 DRW truck down a hill and let off the pedal and reset the trip at the same time. I have no problems maintaining 99MPG (which is as high as it will read) for a good 2 miles

New European Driving Cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IslandTractor]

New European Driving Cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting. I wonder if the US mileage figures are also generated under laboratory rather than real world conditions. I can understand the benefits of using the stationary vehicle for purposes of reproducibility etc but wonder if anyone had done thorough checks in the real world. Car to car variation would be minimized with the lab approach so comparisons would still be valid but I just wonder if 35mpg in a lab test equates to 35mpg in the real world.

 

[rsewill]

Just remember, thanks to its high torque at low RPM, Diesels are ideal power plants for hybrids.

 

[LD1]

Using your comparison calculations, with a 11mpg advantage @$4/gallon it would take 58,000miles of urban driving to pay back $3K. Not too bad considering the life time of the car and risk of even higher gas costs.

On the other hand, for someone who does primarily highway driving the payback is probably even longer than figure you gave using the combined MPG figure.

Maybe this explains some of the left vs right argument on this topic. Lefties are more likely to be urban/suburban while conservatives more likely to be rural.

I think thats it right there.

If I was a city folk, and had a short city commute to work, and only a ~58k mile payback, I would probabally consider a hybrid. But the only one I would consider at the moment would be the hyundai because of the battery warrenty.:thumbsup:

But at the moment, I have a 85 mile round trip to work and home everyday. 70 miles of that is interstate. Only 5 miles is "city" and the other 10 is out here in rural country. So It is pretty obvious why I dont own a hybrid. Because the nnumbers just dont make sense.