strum456
Platinum Member
I dont know kubotas. Is it an electric hour meeter? Does the hour meeter run with the engine off if the key is left on? My Suzuki king quad does that (stupid design).
What are the maximum numbers of hours for a tractor to be considered new
- Thread starter rogerius
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bp fick
Super Member
The regional or national Kubota rep is indeed, the right place to appeal this fiasco. I'd contact Kubota, via email or phone call immediately and let them sort this out. Contact info is on their website. That's the best approach me thinks.
OP
rogerius
Silver Member
Already he contacted the manager and tomorrow is invited at the dealer for the meeting. Unfortunately he doesn't have any hours recorded on the sales papers; it's just a note as "N" means new.
crazyal
Super Member
I think he's a little too **** if 12 hours bothers him or that there's a few scratches on the bucket. It's a tractor. After 2 days I had more than 12 hours on mine and removed most of the paint off the bucket. How long does he plan on owning it? Do you really think that 12 extra hours on the clock is going to cause him to loose any money? As far as the warranty goes either he's going to use it as a tractor and put a ton of hours on it or (most likely) the years will go by and that'll end the warranty.
Most dealers see these as tractors, not exotic sports cars. They were built to work not be garage show pieces that only go out on fair weather days to impress the neighbors. How long was it between when the dealer made the sale (with 2 hours on it) and when they delivered it?
I don't know about the rest of you but I probably spent 10 to 15 minutes playing with one (more likely 5 minutes). How long does it take to get a feel for a tractor? It's not like they have a field in the back where you can spend 10 hours pulling a bottom plow. Even if each person spent an hour trying it out that would still be 10 people. Realistically to get 10 hours on the tractor from people demoing the tractor would be more like 15 to 20, just how busy is the dealer?
Also how do you know that the dealer didn't give the tractor it's final inspection and made sure the loader function properly by digging into a pile of dirt to check the lifting capacity? If he really wanted to be a pain ask for the 50 hour service for free. If the bucket bothers him then ask for a new bucket. But now that he's signed the papers the tractor may not be able to be sold as "new" to someone else.
12 hours equals about .2% of the total life of the tractor.
Most dealers see these as tractors, not exotic sports cars. They were built to work not be garage show pieces that only go out on fair weather days to impress the neighbors. How long was it between when the dealer made the sale (with 2 hours on it) and when they delivered it?
I don't know about the rest of you but I probably spent 10 to 15 minutes playing with one (more likely 5 minutes). How long does it take to get a feel for a tractor? It's not like they have a field in the back where you can spend 10 hours pulling a bottom plow. Even if each person spent an hour trying it out that would still be 10 people. Realistically to get 10 hours on the tractor from people demoing the tractor would be more like 15 to 20, just how busy is the dealer?
Also how do you know that the dealer didn't give the tractor it's final inspection and made sure the loader function properly by digging into a pile of dirt to check the lifting capacity? If he really wanted to be a pain ask for the 50 hour service for free. If the bucket bothers him then ask for a new bucket. But now that he's signed the papers the tractor may not be able to be sold as "new" to someone else.
12 hours equals about .2% of the total life of the tractor.
hizoot
Gold Member
I remember reading a post awhile back where this guy was reading the "tenths" on the clock as full hours....so .2 was read as "2" and 1.2 was read as 12 for example. could this possibly be the case here?
JOHNTHOMAS
Super Member
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Interesting how "the rest of the story" changes the picture. My first response was no big deal since a mechanic could have forgotten and left it running while doing the final set up thus the clock keeps ticking. Now with the rest of the story where it had 2 hours when purchased and no visible signs of use then I change my opinion. First the 12 hours use on a tractor isn't significant but someone using MY machine (it was his when he agreed to the purchase in my mind) for 10 hours without my permission is going to cause me to be aggravated. I'd want "something" to relieve the feeling of aggravation starting with an apology, then an explanation or the explanation first then the apology. If I got those up front I'd of been OK, probably. If I'd not gotten those up front and they came later after being threatened with losing my deposit, I'd want blood (Money).:laughing:
I agree also if I couldn't get my deposit back and get one from another dealer. I've seen on this forum where Canada has some different ideas about shopping around/pricing.
I believe , as another poster has written, that this experience will probably live forever in the MIND of the dealer and the customer and if the Company makes the dealer do something that they have not already volunteered to do then there will still be those hostile fillings in the mind of the dealer and customer but I'd feel at an even greater level.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Agreed.
As another poster mentioned...make SURE he wasnt reading in tenths.
But as to the hours, and what to be considered new, I dont think there is anything written in stone. You could have TWO 10 hour identical machines and one be new, the other used. Example is a new one with 5 hours could just have 5 hours from being moved around and tested at the dealer lot. A 5 hour used machine could be one someone bought, used, and decided it wasnt for them and traded it back in.
If the tractor had been sold before = used regardless of hours.
So the real question becomes: when is it no longer new and considered a demo?
IF the story is accurate, where the guy put money down on a NEW machine with no scratches and only 2 hours, and then takes delivery of a 12 hour machine that was obviously used for purposes other than setup....I'd be a little ticked too. I know some good dealers in the interest of making a sale will let potential buyers use the tractor at their place for a bit, or even test it in a dirt pile out behind the dealer, but 10 ADDITIONAL hours??? It sounds to me like that happened SEVERAL times between downpayment and delivery.
How long of time are we talking between him looking at it with 2 hours and taking delivery?
Heck, maybe the salesman new he had the deal sealed and had a few projects around his house to do and thought he'd try to pull a fast one??? IDK.
In the long run though, 12 hours and a re-painted bucket isnt going to make a difference. But it is the point of the matter though. And I agree with the OP that his friend has every right to be ticked. IF he wanted a demo unit or a used machine, he would have bought one.
12 hours is about the equivellent of a car with 500 miles on it. How many of us would be ticked off if you put a downpayment on a NEW car only to seal the deal and pick the car up and see 500 miles on it??
Rogerius: keep us updated and let us know how this meeting turns out.
WM75Guy
Elite Member
Go see if the 2 hour machine is still on the lot. May have been a bait and switch, get rid of the older unit, keep the shiny one on the showroom floor.
johnrex62
Platinum Member
In this case I don't see the question of new vs used being the issue. The real issue is that the unit was significantly used and materially changed from the time the purchase contract was made and before it was delivered.
The man bought a tractor in a specific condition and it was not delivered in that condition. A few hours added to the meter may or may not be detrimental to the condition in the overall scheme of things, 10 additional hours is considerable however and would indicate to me a lot more than just setup or forgetting it idling. The bucket condition is a completely different affair. It demonstrates usage and operation of the machine after it was contracted for.
I would consider this an abuse of the dealers obligation of care of the property while in his possession. If I stored a piece of equipment, I would certainly not expect the operator of the storage facility to take it and use it. Why should the dealer use or demo my equipment for his benefit before delivering it to me? I may have given permission for such use if asked, but I would expect the unit to be delivered in the same physical condition as I bought it and 10 hours of demo is a lot. I don't accumulate that much meter time mowing my 5 acre lot over the summer and I mow it frequently.
The man bought a tractor in a specific condition and it was not delivered in that condition. A few hours added to the meter may or may not be detrimental to the condition in the overall scheme of things, 10 additional hours is considerable however and would indicate to me a lot more than just setup or forgetting it idling. The bucket condition is a completely different affair. It demonstrates usage and operation of the machine after it was contracted for.
I would consider this an abuse of the dealers obligation of care of the property while in his possession. If I stored a piece of equipment, I would certainly not expect the operator of the storage facility to take it and use it. Why should the dealer use or demo my equipment for his benefit before delivering it to me? I may have given permission for such use if asked, but I would expect the unit to be delivered in the same physical condition as I bought it and 10 hours of demo is a lot. I don't accumulate that much meter time mowing my 5 acre lot over the summer and I mow it frequently.
Dr_Zinj
Veteran Member
I had two hours on the meter when I got my new tractor.
Whatever is on the lot in Chichester is what gets available for demo because they don't keep a bigger inventory than is absolutely necessary. Usually they use one of their rental units if they are in; but I've had the keys to the brand new one handed to me for a test spin, and there was a load of sand in the back to practice on. Of course Bobcat doesn't have a massive number of similar models like Kubota or JD.
12 hours would be 20% closer to that 50 hour maintenance point; with all the fluid drain and filter replacement, and more importantly, cost. A reasonable fellow would point out that the deal was done with 3 hours on the meter, the tractor delivered with 12, I'll ignore that discrepancy if you knock 20% of the 50 hour servicing fee.
Whatever is on the lot in Chichester is what gets available for demo because they don't keep a bigger inventory than is absolutely necessary. Usually they use one of their rental units if they are in; but I've had the keys to the brand new one handed to me for a test spin, and there was a load of sand in the back to practice on. Of course Bobcat doesn't have a massive number of similar models like Kubota or JD.
12 hours would be 20% closer to that 50 hour maintenance point; with all the fluid drain and filter replacement, and more importantly, cost. A reasonable fellow would point out that the deal was done with 3 hours on the meter, the tractor delivered with 12, I'll ignore that discrepancy if you knock 20% of the 50 hour servicing fee.
