Thinking about getting myself a welder, but...

   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #21  
I like my Hobart Handler 140 (110 v). I like to be able to go plug it in anywhere and I think it's the most powerful 110 unit you can get. I don't use gas with it (but the regulators are included if I decide to) and have no problem welding thick or thin. Got my auto-dimming face shield at Harbor Freight for like $39. It works fine for the amount I use it and I can buy several replacements and still be ahead of buying a more expensive one.
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #22  
thick? like 1/2" in single pass?
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #23  
thick? like 1/2" in single pass?

i'd like a good explanation of what that really means, other than someone read it off the manufacturer's literature.

the amount of weld applied to a particular joint has a minimal amount to do with the thickness of the material, aside from needing to be hot enough to to create proper fusion. the amount of weld required should be based on the load that the connection is required to take. many times the material thickness is driven by a bending consideration, or shear / tearout through a hole pattern. obviously, for most simple home shop weldments you don't know the exact load required, but you should know from observation that only in very specific cases do you need a weld that is capable of carrying the full tensile capacity of the material.

i've designed and drawn literally thousands of connections that use 1/2" material, and as a minimum they only require a 3/16" single pass fillet weld, unless the actual load on the connection dictates otherwise. aside from specific processes, such as submerged arc, a fillet weld is generally not allowed to be larger than 5/16" in a single pass, regardless of the size of the machine.

in actual practice, i built a skidding winch a couple years ago, and for the ears to connect to the 3ph lower arms i used 1/2" plate, because it was what i had around. i made them so they fit up with a slight gap between the ears and the channel frame, and used a small 120v wire feed welder to attach them. it was certainly pushing the limit of what it could do, but it did work fine. the very start of the weld was slightly cold, but once the arc heated the metal it went fine. very little welding actually requires 100% penetration. in my industry we try to redesign so we can avoid complete penetration, as it just adds a lot more work that isn't always necessary.
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #24  
I have a hobart handler 187, 220 volt setup, with the tank I have about 1k invested, and I absolutely love it, I have built a tree spade for $100 all from drop steel @30 cents a pound, a pallet fork frame from mostly scrap plus $100 dollar auction forks, and most recently a log splitter. if you are going to buy a welder then you will need a chop saw and angle grinder at least. But once I got it I wondered how I ever lived without it. I did fight it out with an old century with flux core for about a year before I had enough of it and upgraded.
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #25  
i'd like a good explanation of what that really means, other than someone read it off the manufacturer's literature.
I would too! :confused:
This subject came up a few days ago, either here or another site. It has to boil down to joint design! If splicing 1/2 thick plate with 22 1/2 degree bevels I'm not sure I've ever run a machine that can do that in a single pass. 1/2 inch thick material with a fillet weld on each side, sure. Good rule of thumb is, the weld should be half the thickness of the material. So that would be a 1/4 inch weld on each side. Here is a picture of an honest 1/4 inch Mig weld. I remember when I first bought my Trailblazer 55D, I was working in a beam splicing yard. I had to weld 3/4 inch thick plates to the flanges of the beams. The drawing required 3/8 inch fillet welds all the way around the plates. I had an on site inspector who was a royal PITA! I think he put a weld gauge on every weld. To keep production up I was running 5/64 inch Innershield at 400 + amps. Hard to remember every detail because this was 1983 I could get either 12 or 18 inches of honest 3/8 inch fillet weld in under 60 seconds. One thing I do remember like it was yesterday, every morning I had to replace the Tweco lead fittings at the machine. The rubber would get so hot it would melt, and drip onto the bed of the truck. Here is a picture of the Trailblazer.
 

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   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #26  
While there may be only a few things that you absolutely have to have welded, I think being able to weld opens up more things that you could do but were not worth hauling to a weld shop to have done. I'm just starting out myself. The other night, just for learning, I made a "saw horse" out of old fence t posts. My wife took one look at it and said "Oh great, a bean kettle support for over the campfire!" I guess I have to make a few more:laughing:

I know there are other things that I will be making (like equipment stands) that would never get done if I had to have a weld shop make them.

As for the 220 issue, here are a few possibilities:
1) go oxy/acetylene. No electricity required, field portable. It can also be used for cutting. Some people say that it is the best way to start learning welding although it is not the easiest.
2) instead of burying new cable, run it overhead, or have the utility install a separate line/meter to the workshed
3) get a welder/generator or get a generator big enough to run a 220 welder. Either would provide backup power for utility outages.
4) change your plans and work from the garage instead of the barn. Or, get a 110/220 unit and use it on 110 from the barn but be able to use it on 220 close to the house if you run into a situation where you need the extra capacity.

Ken
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #27  
If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd go the route he is thinking of already, with a brand-name 120 v wire feeder. It will definitely weld up to 1/4" steel reliably, is easy for a beginner to use.

It may not be a "forever" welder that he can build heavy equipment with, but it'll get him started without re-wiring and spending a fortune on infra-structure simply to repair a mower deck once a year. If he finds he's welding more than the original plan, then is the time to upgrade.

Money is easy to spend, particularly if you become convinced you need to buy a sledgehammer to drive finish nails, just in case you might ever want to drive fenceposts.

It's the same route I took, with a Miller 135. I built a lot of gear with that machine, then won a Miller 180 and sold the 135 since I thought I wouldn't use it again. I wish I had it back now, the money I got for it is long gone but the use for true 120V portability is still there.

I picked up a used AC/DC stick welder a couple years ago for cheap. It does at least 50% of my work these days, but I already have an existing garage that was built with 220 power for welding in mind.

Sean
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but...
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Ken45101....Jeeze, you make me feel so DUMB with your suggestion that I buy a generator...here I have a Coleman with a 5000 watt rating/6250 surge watts it has 20.8 amps at 220...

Go ahead and laugh at me, I deserve it !!!
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #29  
Ken45101....Jeeze, you make me feel so DUMB with your suggestion that I buy a generator...here I have a Coleman with a 5000 watt rating/6250 surge watts it has 20.8 amps at 220...

Go ahead and laugh at me, I deserve it !!!

I have a 5000 watt genny too, and it will run the mig up to about 80% power, then will pop the breaker. The weld quality using the genny as a power source isn't as good as line power either at least in my case, so keep that in mind. It may be the "unclean" power the generator puts out affecting the circuit cards in the welder.

I haven't tried using it to run the stick welder, so I can't comment on that.

Sean
 
   / Thinking about getting myself a welder, but... #30  
Ken45101....Jeeze, you make me feel so DUMB with your suggestion that I buy a generator...here I have a Coleman with a 5000 watt rating/6250 surge watts it has 20.8 amps at 220...

Go ahead and laugh at me, I deserve it !!!

LOL. Well, I don't know but that may or may not be marginal but may still work for you in some cases. If I were you, I would go with a 120/220 welder that you can run on your 120 most of the time, on the gen sometimes when you need a bit more, and move it to the garage if you need full power.

That gives you the most flexibility without any major modifications.

Ken
 

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