Thinking about getting myself a welder, but...

[JDgreen227]

how about a big honkin' extension cord to run you welder in your garage?
6/3 SOOW 100 ft. Black Flexible Cord-55809243 at The Home Depot

$3 PER FOOT !!!!! BLEEP !!!

 

[Groo]

$3 PER FOOT !!!!! BLEEP !!!

Ya, it was a whole bunch cheaper last year. Copper just keeps on climbing through the roof.

 

[TheKid]

To answer your question, yes the cost of the welders were worth it for me. I can't count the number of things I've either repaired, or made. I started out with a Lincoln 220 volt AC buzz box about 15 years ago. Welds great until you get to the thinner materials. Then it's good at making holes. :mur:

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a 120 volt Hobart Auto Arc 130. There was a 15% off sale going on so it cost me $280.50 plus tax. Once I get the wire feed speed and amp settings figured out I think it will be a handy addition.:thumbsup:

 

[Freakingstang]

I keep a spool of flux core wire too in case I need to work outside.

That is a very common misconception. While it is much better for welding outside in a Windy condition, It has many benefits over standard mig wire/argon. flux core is really usefull on a smaller machine when welding thicker materials. Most 110V machines will not weld 3/16-1/4 on regular copper wire and argon. It might LOOK like it is welded good, but I assure you if you cut it apart or had it Xrayed you would see.

Flux Core is also a much better all around wire as long as you aren't trying to weld quarter panels on your 55 chevy. It welds dirty/rusted/ steel much better and doesn't require as much metal prep as the argon wire would.

Most people that dislike flux core wire are people that can't weld very good. Those charts on your welder will give you a baseline for speed and amperage, but it just comes with expeience where you set it at for the material you are welding.

I have a Linlcon 195. While it isn't a miller 251 like I used to have at my old job, this one does 90% of what i'll ever need to do. It is 220v though. for a complete package (cart, tank of argon, welder, helmet, misc) for under 1K, you can't go wrong. I've put hundreds of spools through my fathers smaller 185 in the last 10-12 years and it has been a fantastic machine.

 

[undercut]

I'm very, very new to the whole concept of welding ... but I want to do it! As a hobbyist, I will never recoup any investment in welding equipment. Saving up for a 120/240 to give me the most flexibility.

 

[gwdixon]

I'm very, very new to the whole concept of welding ... but I want to do it! As a hobbyist, I will never recoup any investment in welding equipment. Saving up for a 120/240 to give me the most flexibility.

Good welding equipment always has a residual value if it is not abused.

Enjoyment is a worthwhile trade-off. You don't expect your golf clubs, chain saws, new cars, hobby tractor, or the like to give you back all of the cash to your pocket. Consider it an entertainment expense.

Working with good tools can be a joy.

 

[Gary Fowler]

When I built my shop, it went in before my house and is also about 150 feet away from the side of my house where the meter loop is located. I just had the power company put in an overhead line to the shop and a meter. This was all free to the meter. If your breaker box is close to where you put your 220v receptacle for the welding machine, you wont need a whole lot of wire so intallation cost is minimal. Later when I built my house, I ran the power from the pole to it underground for esthetic reasons and my contractor put in the ditching and conduit and the power company pulled the wire cheaper than I could buy it. With separate meters, I always know how much my shop is costing me to run which will be handy to have if I should decide to open a welding repair business out of it. I bought an industrial 220/480v 350 amp CC/CV AC/DC stick machine from a fabrication shop for $350 that will also power a wire feeder if I want to get one later, but I like the stick process. It came with over 100 feet of heavy 1/0 welding lead and 50 feet of ground. I next found a used Phoenix 350# electrod oven that keeps my low hydrogen 7018 dry and hot for $150 and stocked it up with 3/32 and 1/8 E 7018. I also picked up a few boxes of E 6010 for running open butt root passes. Next I picked up a Victor cutting torch with 2 oxygen and 1 acetylene bottles for $250 and 3 or 4 each of the 4" grinders for $20 each and a 7" grinder for $40 at Harbor freight along with a supply of grinding disc. Next got a big 14" abrasive cut off saw from Craftsman and and a heavy anvil from a pawn shop along with a 6" table vise and I have about anything I need to fix whatever breaks. I might have $1000 total in all of it and I have saved way more than that just fixing broken stuff on my tractor that I would have had to trucked to a shop to get fixed. Of course I used to be a professional pipe welder in my youth and still can do a fair job when I get my tri-focal glasses lined up right so using the equipment correctly is not an issue. I have fixed bush hogs, 3 PH brackets, back hoe feet, broken drawbar connectors, built brackets for mounting tool boxes, patched up the rusted out deck on my old JD 332 lawn tractor, welded on chain hooks on all my FELs, just to name a few things. Way more that paid for itself and I still have all of the equipment which is worth more than I paid for it, so I think, yes it is worth it to have a welding machine. IF you dont know how to weld, take some lessons at a community college and buy you a Lincold AC/DC machine and some rods and start repairing your own stuff and building stuff. It is a lot of fun. IF your first repairs dont look to good or break again, grind off the weld and reweld them, eventually you will get good enough that everything holds together.

 

[Gary Fowler]

JDGreen Grass, the repair cost you $25 but how about the time it took you to take it off (could it have been welded in place if you could weld and had the equipment), how about your time and mileage expense of going to the welding shop, waiting for the repair or in some instances, drop it off and come back in a day or two because they are too busy on a rush job to mess with your $25 job. Isn't your down time and travel time worth something? Mine sure is even if I just want to be a couch potato and take a nap, my free time has value to me and I dont want to be standing around waiting on someone else to work on my repair + they likely wont do it as good as I could do it either.
If it is aluminum, I would take it somewhere to fix since I am not set up to weld it and only my boat and motor is made of aluminum so not much action to worry about there plus that equipment is rather expensive to buy and maintain. If the boat is broken, I can wait to get it fixed since I can work rather than play while it is down, whereas most of my other stuff, I need it to work when I need it.

 

[undercut]

Good welding equipment always has a residual value if it is not abused.

Enjoyment is a worthwhile trade-off. You don't expect your golf clubs, chain saws, new cars, hobby tractor, or the like to give you back all of the cash to your pocket. Consider it an entertainment expense.

Working with good tools can be a joy.

Very wise words. I need to keep reminding myself of this as I save up.

 

[rankrank1]

I'm very, very new to the whole concept of welding ... but I want to do it! As a hobbyist, I will never recoup any investment in welding equipment. Saving up for a 120/240 to give me the most flexibility.

Actually it is very easy to recoup 100% of your welding investment if you start out modestly. A used AC buzzbox (e.g. Lincoln tombstone, Miller Thunderbolt, Hobart Stickmate, even craftsmen, etc) can be picked up used for $100 to $125 or so. Better yet an AC/DC version of each will be $200 or so used and well worth the extra money.

Any of these units will last for decades and will likely pay for itself on the first repair that you make. If you get really serious about welding and later want a better machine because you use it a lot then you can easily sell it and recoup 100% of you investment because they never depreciate in value due to their unmatched durability.

Add $15 for a cheapo 4.5" electric grinder (use for grinding and cutting steel with cut-off wheels) and you have all you need to get started in welding except a welding helmet and gloves. Electric sawz-all is nice too if you already have one and useful for carpentry projects too so easily justifiable for homeowner hobbyist. Skip the expensive things like chop saws or band saws unless you plan to build large complex projects from scratch. Chop saws and band saws are mostly useless in the repair world of welding.

Going up in price from here with welding equipment does add some convenience and usually better equipment in some cases but you will pay for it somehow through higher initial purchase price, your purchase will depreciate in value, as the complexity goes up the durability likely decreases, if you go mig there are hidden expenses like bottle leases/purchase, gas refills, gun liners, tips etc. All of these factors make it financially harder for the occasional hobbyist to get fiscal payback on expensive equipment even if it is better. Serious users find it easier to get that payback, or some people simply do not care about costs and think they must always have the best of everything regardless if it makes fiscal sense or not (Lots of foreclosed houses due to logic like this). On the other hand businesses can easily justify the better equipment because it usually is faster and time is money in the business world.

 

[undercut]

Actually it is very easy to recoup 100% of your welding investment if you start out modestly. A used AC buzzbox (e.g. Lincoln tombstone, Miller Thunderbolt, Hobart Stickmate, even craftsmen, etc) can be picked up used for $100 to $125 or so. Better yet an AC/DC version of each will be $200 or so used and well worth the extra money.

Any of these units will last for decades and will likely pay for itself on the first repair that you make. If you get really serious about welding and later want a better machine because you use it a lot then you can easily sell it and recoup 100% of you investment because they never depreciate in value due to their unmatched durability.

Add $15 for a cheapo 4.5" electric grinder (use for grinding and cutting steel with cut-off wheels) and you have all you need to get started in welding except a welding helmet and gloves. Electric sawz-all is nice too if you already have one and useful for carpentry projects too so easily justifiable for homeowner hobbyist. Skip the expensive things like chop saws or band saws unless you plan to build large complex projects from scratch. Chop saws and band saws are mostly useless in the repair world of welding.

Going up in price from here with welding equipment does add some convenience and usually better equipment in some cases but you will pay for it somehow through higher initial purchase price, your purchase will depreciate in value, as the complexity goes up the durability likely decreases, if you go mig there are hidden expenses like bottle leases/purchase, gas refills, gun liners, tips etc. All of these factors make it financially harder for the occasional hobbyist to get fiscal payback on expensive equipment even if it is better. Serious users find it easier to get that payback, or some people simply do not care about costs and think they must always have the best of everything regardless if it makes fiscal sense or not (Lots of foreclosed houses due to logic like this). On the other hand businesses can easily justify the better equipment because it usually is faster and time is money in the business world.

Excellent points. I think you've really opened my eyes to my options. Many thanks!

 

[Jesse masterson]

I would stay away from the ac buzz boxes they can kill ya get a ac dc machine and weld on dc much safer

 

[rcowan]

I picked up a HH175 in a gun trade the other day and can justify the expense. Me, the horses or the wife are always breaking stuff around the place.

RC

 

[Soundguy]

falling in your bathtub can kill you.

flu kills thousands a year.

ac buzzbox is a tool. used correctly.. it's no more dangerous that oh.. a chainsaw maybee?

 

[Jesse masterson]

Ac welder kill many people every year from electrocution ac holds onto you dc will knock you away my father and bro were pipefitters for local160 for a combined 60 years that was also there opinion among many other professionals

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Yup, its the amps that kill, not volts. Now lets see, how many amps does this buzz box put out ......? "Used correctly" can be a bit tricky when it comes to lectricity.

 

[rankrank1]

I would stay away from the ac buzz boxes they can kill ya get a ac dc machine and weld on dc much safer

The DC side can kill you too and thinking you are so much safer with DC is quite a false sense of security. Both need to be respected and careful precautions taken where appropiate.

 

[rankrank1]

Ac welder kill many people every year from electrocution ac holds onto you dc will knock you away my father and bro were pipefitters for local160 for a combined 60 years that was also there opinion among many other professionals

Well 60 years ago, I might concede you have a marginal argument at best since many welders made 60 plus years ago could have potentially dangerously high Open Circuit Voltages (OCV) to your average healthy adult. Industrial firebreathing engine drive generator welders like found on an industrial jobsite can also have high dangerously OCV, but those do not fall in the buzzbox category of welder mentioned in my earlier post.

That all said, any buzzbox made say since about 1960 ( or within the last 50 years) is limited to 80 volts maximum OCV by Underwriter Labratory (UL) whether it be AC or DC output to better help with operator safety. Basically equally safe or equally dangerous depending on your perspective.

My experience: I have been tingled a few times on both AC and DC. In all cases for me, I was either soaked with sweat to the point of being dripping wet or welding in very damp grass - either improves the ground path. Now when either of these happens, I am done welding until conditions are safer for me again.

 

[Sublifer]

Yup, its the amps that kill, not volts. Now lets see, how many amps does this buzz box put out ......? "Used correctly" can be a bit tricky when it comes to lectricity.

Stupidity and carelessness is what kills.

 

[Jesse masterson]

That so true stupidity cam play a role but if you get 25 truly pro welders together 20 will tell you to stay away from ac that just the facts I've been around professionals all my life and I know there opinion it's not just mine