Thinking about getting myself a welder, but...

[k0ua]

LOL. Well, I don't know but that may or may not be marginal but may still work for you in some cases. If I were you, I would go with a 120/220 welder that you can run on your 120 most of the time, on the gen sometimes when you need a bit more, and move it to the garage if you need full power.

That gives you the most flexibility without any major modifications.

Ken

Sounds like a plan to me:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[Ken45101]

I would too!
This subject came up a few days ago, either here or another site. It has to boil down to joint design! If splicing 1/2 thick plate with 22 1/2 degree bevels I'm not sure I've ever run a machine that can do that in a single pass. 1/2 inch thick material with a fillet weld on each side, sure. Good rule of thumb is, the weld should be half the thickness of the material. So that would be a 1/4 inch weld on each side.

Help me understand, if you will please, about capability and when beveling is needed.

My Millermatic 211 is supposed to weld up to 3/8" in a single pass (not that I mind multiple passes). If I'm trying to weld a butt joint on 1/4", do I need to bevel the edges? Is it too much to expect full penetration without bevelling? Can I make an adequately strong weld by doing both sides without full penetration? How much penetration do I need for a good joint?

What do they mean by "welding up to 3/8" in a single pass?" A 3/16" fillet on both sides of a tee joint or lap joint?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[lostcause]

Help me understand, if you will please, about capability and when beveling is needed.

My Millermatic 211 is supposed to weld up to 3/8" in a single pass (not that I mind multiple passes). If I'm trying to weld a butt joint on 1/4", do I need to bevel the edges? Is it too much to expect full penetration without bevelling? Can I make an adequately strong weld by doing both sides without full penetration? How much penetration do I need for a good joint?

What do they mean by "welding up to 3/8" in a single pass?" A 3/16" fillet on both sides of a tee joint or lap joint?

Thanks,
Ken

i'd like to throw a little more information at this one. hopefully it will be simple enough to understand and not muddy things up too much...

i'm going to quote information and pages out of the american institute of steel construction 9th edition allowable stress manual which i know most of you won't have access too, so i'll try to paraphrase the gist of the information. sadly, this is an out of date spec for virtually all construction now, but it was the current one when i started in this industry a little over 20 years ago so i can still instantly flip to the page i need. as newer specifications have come out, most of my work was done on computer and i've had far fewer occasions where i needed to look up something in a printed text, therefore it would take me a lot more time to assemble this information. no matter which spec is used, the general information is the same.

in the welded joints section, starting on page 4-152 there is discussion of complete penetration joints. they show examples of the most commonly used complete penetration joint conditions, and consider these types prequalified. by that they mean that assuming these joints are made with proper material under the proper conditions, then they may be exempt from testing, though i find that is often not the case. still, the pictures of the joints show the suggested/required welding.

for your example of splicing two plates, here is the information:

joint designation B-L1b allows material up to 1/4" to be spliced with no beveling, provided that a 1/8" gap is left between the pieces of material. this joint is made by welding one side of the connection then gouging the back side of the weld, generally with a carbon gouging rod. after any impurities have been removed by gouging the back side is then welded. this joint is for the smaw (stick welding) process.

joint B-L1b-GF allows up to 3/8" thick material to be joined with no beveling and a gap of 0" to 1/8". this still requires the same weld/gouge/weld procedure and is allowable for gmaw (mig) and fcaw (flux core) wire feeders, though short circuit transfer is specifically excluded from this and all other prequalified welds that do not use a backer. short circuit transfer is what most of us are using with our light duty welders.

processes B-U2/B-U2-GF and B-U4b/B-U4b-GF are for splicing material while beveling one (45 degrees) or both (30 degrees each) pieces with a gap of 0" to 1/8". these can be done with smaw. gmaw, or fcaw welding on any thickness material. thick material will require multiple passes of weld. these are still accomplished with a weld/gouge/weld procedure and short circuit transfer is still excluded as a prequalified solution.

the thing to remember is that these are what is used for building and bridge construction by large fab shops. what we do in our homes very rarely mimics this. as you can see, to achieve complete penetration all of these welds are done from both sides and require backgouging. this is not to say that you can't achieve complete penetration from a single side welding, because some industries such as pipeline welding don't have the luxury of being able to weld from the back side, but these two sided welds are done on a daily basis by many large fab shops.

the question of when you need a full penetration weld is one that is virtually impossible to answer. every condition is different but your best friends are experience and observation. look at other similar commercially made products and see how they are done. short of a complete structural analysis you'll never know exactly what you need. the most likely needs for complete penetration are for repairing a piece of metal that broke (not a broken weld) or when you need to splice a piece of metal because you don't have one full piece that is big enough.

on the issue of 3/8" in a single pass... that's so vague you have to make assumptions everywhere. does that mean for 70ksi filler metal? is it for tension or shear? is it for a single sided or double sided weld? is it for 36ksi yeild/58ksi tensile steel? one thing i am pretty sure of is that it isn't a complete penetration weld of 3/8" material in a single pass.

because of the nature of what i do, i find that i look at how literally everything is built - it's just how i am wired. i notice bolts, welds, material thicknesses and so on. i find that very little actually needs to be done with a complete penetration weld.

 

[Ken45101]

lostcause:

Thanks! VERY helpful. I'll be saving your message.

Ken

 

[Shield Arc]

Help me understand, if you will please, about capability and when beveling is needed.

Ken I don't hardly ever weld anything 1/4 inch and above without a bevel or gap. When you use a 9-inch angle grinder it only takes a few seconds to put a bevel on something. But as lostcause says, it all depends on the application.

Here are some full penetration welds on pipe with SMAW, (stick) and Tig. If you are interested I can post some pictures of AutoCad drawings of joint designs I use.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I have saved thousands with my welder from fixing broken FEL to building underground duck pits to underground tornado shelters I won't go without one as long as I have food on the table

 

[Soundguy]

very first arc I struck with my 220v stick welder MORE than paid for it, repairing a batwing mower I had, vs calling a mobile service out to the farm ... good tool to have..


soundguy

 

[Oaktree]

I like my Hobart Handler 140 (110 v). I like to be able to go plug it in anywhere and I think it's the most powerful 110 unit you can get. I don't use gas with it (but the regulators are included if I decide to) and have no problem welding thick or thin. Got my auto-dimming face shield at Harbor Freight for like $39. It works fine for the amount I use it and I can buy several replacements and still be ahead of buying a more expensive one.

I have one of those too...bought it a couple years ago at TS, came with a "free" auto-dimming helmet. Bought a tank, do mostly MIG welding with it. Will I ever do enough welding for it to "pay for itself"? Probably not, but I like the convenience of having it there if I need to fab/repair something...most of the time I use it is evenings/weekends when a welding shop would be closed. I don't see myself ever needing to weld something heavier than this will handle.

I keep a spool of flux core wire too in case I need to work outside.

 

[Bartcephus]

My collection of welders started out because I had a hand truck (dolly) that lost a "fender" while moving into a house. Friendly neighbor used a Lincoln mig unit (120 volt) to fix it. I was hooked. Bought my first welder, a Lincoln 175 SP Mig with tank and cart. Then bought a Lincoln Pow'r Arc 4000 gas powered welder/generator.... started burning some rod. Next it was a Oxy/Act set for cutting, heating, welding, brazing, sodering. How handy! Then I bought my Millermatic Pulsar 220 volt mig unit. Has both a steel and aluminum gun, dual tanks etc. Love them all! It is addictive. Using them to rebuild my hiller/bedder. I loved doing woodworking, but metalworking is also a blast if you have the right tools.

 

[Groo]

how about a big honkin' extension cord to run you welder in your garage?
6/3 SOOW 100 ft. Black Flexible Cord-55809243 at The Home Depot