Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[EE_Bota]

Yeah I can see both sides. I think the main issue is that we do need to move towards cleaner energy so the issue is more whether the timing of this will cause problems or simply nudge the power plants towards natural gas as they are generally moving that way anyways. I imagine a lot of the screaming and hollering is just the coal producers who naturally are defending their turf.

They are going after gas next. It is a war on any carbon based fuel except wood.

 

[powerpace]

Anybody have any idea how many 1st generation Prius's are on used car lots?

I suspect what will happen with hybrid cars is that by the time the battery pack finally needs replacing, the battery pack will cost as much or more than what the car is worth at that time.

So if the car will run solely on the gas engine, people will continue to do so until the rest of the car pukes as they won't be able to justify the cost of a replacement battery pack; but in the meantime the gas engine wastes fuel dragging along a useless battery pack and other assorted electric drive components.

As I've probably said before; the electric drive components are ready, what isn't is an affordable energy storage system with a predictable range regardless of weather, and a quick way to recharge the things. Until a quick recharge long lasting battery pack made of affordable unobtanium becomes a reality electric vehicles will serve niche markets and purposes.

In the meantime while the magic battery pack is being found, clean diesel technology is probably our best bet for increasing fossil fuel efficiency. After all, if the persnickety socialist Europeans embrace diesels, than we should be able to also. My guess is the EPA is the biggest hindrance to greater diesel adoption in cars in this country.

Higher milage driven before batteries need replacing.

Replacement battery packs can be had for $600 to $700. Battery pack weighs about 110 pounds.

Toyota Prius taxi tops 340,000mi, dispels battery myth

Toyota Prius: Tough Enough To Be A Taxi. Anywhere.

 

[powerpace]

It was definitely a Prius. Circa 2006 vintage. Maybe the newer ones are different, haven't driven one since.

Name calling not intended, it's just that your posts read like either a paid testimonial or a diehard fan. Apologies if that's not the case. If image isn't a big part of why people buy a hybrid, why is the hybrid Camry a relatively poor seller...it's basically the same car in a conventional body.

As far as longevity goes...it's hard to say. How long a vehicle lasts is highly dependent on how well it's taken care of. Here in northern New England it's rare to see many vehicles make it to 250K...rust usually gets 'em first...Japanese vehicles tend to succomb a few years earlier than American or European makes. Sucks, but we live with it. The Prius I drove didn't feel like something that would stand up long-term...everything was so lightweight and flimsy-feeling, I'm sure to save weight.

My point was not to bash Priuii (or what ever the plural of Prius is)...for better or worse, they seem to be the best of the eco-cars, but for my money they're not worth the price premium or the inconvenience of needing to bring it to the dealer for any service.

No offense taken. Yes I am promoter of anything that saves me money. The Prius has more room inside. I have had five grown people and luggage on several long trips. Milage didn't vary much because of the regenerative charging.
I don't know how the 2008 (171,000 miles) I drive would compare with the 2006 but I do understand there were some changes in there somewhere.

I have a friend that works with my wife 150 miles round trip three times per week. The friend bought a 2012 Prius $24000 to replace the 2010 Civic she was driving. Figures it will save about $120 per month just in the work travel. She also gets 10% discount off her insurance. Not to mention the Civic was falling apart at 30,000 miles.


Toyota Prius: Tough Enough To Be A Taxi. Anywhere.

340,000 mile Prius is a blast from the past - CleanMPG Forums

 

[powerpace]

Too bad. On my browser (IE9) I see a guy walking down the street who sees a gorgeous young Italian woman who starts to seduce him but at the final kiss she turns into the Fiat 500 Arbarth (the hot hatch version). Pretty good commercial.:laughing:

Oh That's a car commercial?!!!! I quit watching right after the guy snaps too.

 

[Scooby074]

Actually the Fiat has been a pretty decent seller, going by the numbers ive seen on the streets.

I looked in a couple, pretty decent on the interior... It is a pretty small car however (think Smart) but in city driving that's a plus.

And that commercial :thumbsup:

 

[mjncad]

Perhaps...for a fee. Gotta put is somewhere safe, as you said.

New EPA rules expected to halt new coal-fired power plants - Business - The Sacramento Bee

I know fly-ash has been used in concrete where appropriate for the job at hand.

After reading the Bee article; did anyone catch the pretzel logic of the EPA rules only applying to new power plants yet to be permitted; but not to existing plants or plants about ready to break ground, which the older they are tend to be more polluting without serious retrofits to boilers, bag-houses, scrubbers, and electrostatic precipitators, which are various technologies used to clean the stack emissions.

Also, the greenies are having a hissy over frakking in the natural gas extraction process.

All energy production methods have pros and cons, and none are perfect. Just what does the EPA think the answer is to create this perfect utopia of clean energy?

Saw an ad on the tube last night for the new Fiat (500??). Loks like a smooshed volkswagen. What a butt ugly car.

Bet they (Fiat-Chrysler) sell a pile here....not.

The FIAT (Fix It Again Tony) 500 sold here is FIAT's retro version of a popular selling model they manufactured in post war Europe. I've seen some running around here; but I wouldn't own one or any FIAT badged car for that matter.

Too bad. On my browser (IE9) I see a guy walking down the street who sees a gorgeous young Italian woman who starts to seduce him but at the final kiss she turns into the Fiat 500 Arbarth (the hot hatch version). Pretty good commercial.:laughing:

That is a neat commercial.

Higher milage driven before batteries need replacing.

Replacement battery packs can be had for $600 to $700. Battery pack weighs about 110 pounds.

Toyota Prius taxi tops 340,000mi, dispels battery myth

Toyota Prius: Tough Enough To Be A Taxi. Anywhere.

Interesting articles; but I didn't see anything about battery pack replacement costs in either article. Also taxi fleets rack up the miles and turnover their cars much quicker than the average driver.

I just think it would be interesting to know how many 1st generation Prius and other hybrids are still being used by private individuals who maybe put 10,000 - 15,000 miles a year on their cars tops.

 

[Monster5601]

Saw an ad on the tube last night for the new Fiat (500??). Loks like a smooshed volkswagen. What a butt ugly car.

Bet they (Fiat-Chrysler) sell a pile here....not.

I sat in one last summer during a Chrysler event on our campus at work. I was surprised by the amount of room inside even for a 6' 4" tall man.

I see several of them on the road every day on my drive to work. I should also mention that I see them on I-75 while passing by Chrysler's headquarters.

 

[aczlan]

I just think it would be interesting to know how many 1st generation Prius and other hybrids are still being used by private individuals who maybe put 10,000 - 15,000 miles a year on their cars tops.

I know someone who has one and likes it. IIRC, they are up to a little over 200k miles on their '02ish Prius. They get mid 40s for mileage (mostly rural/small town driving here in upstate NY where they have to drive ~30 mins to get almost anywhere).
They have run into battery depletion issues when on trips with long uphill grades.
It replaced an '81 Rabbit Diesel pickup.

Aaron Z

 

[JasG]

They are going after gas next. It is a war on any carbon based fuel except wood.

Don't worry, other groups have had a war on wood for years. Trying to get land shut down from logging etc.

It's day will come once they get coal stopped, just have to have faith.:laughing:

 

[mjncad]

Don't worry, other groups have had a war on wood for years. Trying to get land shut down from logging etc.

It's day will come once they get coal stopped, just have to have faith.:laughing:

Yep, then the USA can be like the Moose-limbs and burn dried **** for fuel.