2210 Transmission

[ChinaSailor]

Hi Everybody,

A few days ago my 2210, which I really liked as it did everything asked of it on a really tough piece of property except for not lasting more than 560 hours, crashed reverse gears and sent me and the tractor freewheeling down a very steep 50' slope, into a ditch, across a road, down a ditch into my neighbors yard! Yes, the pucker factor was very high..

But, to the point...

Do you all have any history as to any issues/problems with the 2210's HST?

After the dust settled, and composure quickly gained I found that I had hydraulic pressure since the arms of the removed FEL worked fine, the 54C worked fine so the PTO was working with nothing broken, I was even able to go forward in both high/low gears though I did hear the occasional "crunch" or gear grinding when bringing it back to the shed...

When I tried to go in reverse the wheels were locked, as if the reverse gears are locked...

Anyhow, the JD dealers in the area couldnt/wouldnt give a fix estimate which I kind of understand, but not liking it...

Am now looking to get another used 2210 or late model 2305 so I can use all of my attachments (FEL, 54C and Front Blade) so am questioning the reliability of the transmissions in each of these machines..

(Also, I had all 4 tires on the 2210 foam filled to a) give more weight allowing the tires to better grip on the slopes, b) lower center of gravity, c) didnt want to be a nail magnet from alot of builders debris. The extra weight plus the terrain could have contributed to the failure.. The operator was definitely at any fault whatsoever! :laughing:

I am also looking into getting a 1023E...

So, HST failure rate on 2210 and 2305? good, bad? Given a lemon, can I expect the same low hours before failures on these 3 machines since the terrain is going to stay the same?

Thanks for any help/info...

Re's

Mike

 

[jsb2b]

I've been reading these forums for over 5 years. Never heard of a transmission blowing up. Assuming all required maintenance has been done, then it must be a fluke. Other things have happened like failed PTOs, etc but out of the thousands of these machines sold and still in operation, well, some fail and some don't, just like anything else. Unless the transmission is torn down and inspected, you'll probably never know why it failed and to do so by JD or the dealer will probably cost you more than a used machine!!! Maybe JD would like to pay for some of it but I doubt it. Old model and out of production and no history of this failure.

 

[beenthere]

Mike
Sorry to hear that.
Have not heard about any such problems like yours, but do know that a coast down a slope is pretty hair raising experience.

Every piece of equipment has its limits. From your description you may have been a bit over those limits.
Here's hoping that the Deere dealer finds and fixes the problem, and that Deere will possibly see an offer to help with the fix. Often a dealer can make a case that the fix deserves some corp. help.

And glad to hear that you are ok.

 

[Houkie]

Not that I 'm that mechanically inclined, but are you sure it's the transmission?
Since you mentioned grinding gears. With 400 hrs I heard grinding noises from the front and pulled front axle off. With help we installed new bushing in front differential and now it turns out after checking the final drives, that a seal on final drive has gone bad and dirt and rubber from seal is getting into the final drive gears, although all gears in whole front axle were not broken. In case one of your gears in the front got broken, you would be stuck too! I'm not quit sure if this would help, but to see if it is the transmission or the front axle gears you could disconnect the u joint from the drive shaft. Behind the front axle you see a rubber boot. take the boot off and slide it back. Take the snap ring off and pound with hammer and cut off nail the pin behind the snapring out. Now slide the driveshaft forward out. On the back end you see other u joint and duck tape this, so it can't flap around .Now start your engine and see if you can engage it in 2 wheel drive forward. ( done that before). If you see the rest of driveshaft spinning you know the problem is somewhere in your front axle. If the problem is in your front axle send me a private email and I will try to help you.

 

[beenthere]

Why help in private? Sounds like you have some knowledge to help out.

All TBN would like to hear and learn from what you may have to offer. It is the TBN way

 

[ChinaSailor]

Not that I 'm that mechanically inclined, but are you sure it's the transmission?
Since you mentioned grinding gears. With 400 hrs I heard grinding noises from the front and pulled front axle off. If the problem is in your front axle send me a private email and I will try to help you.

Houkie!

Thank you my friend! While I did not take your advice literally it gave me one more thing to try before throwing in the towel and buying a new machine.

Due to the terrain the 2210 has practically never been out of 4WD, and most of that time in Lo gear...

So I thought, let me see what happens if I just put it in 2WD which would isolate some of the 4WD linkage and/or at least give me an indication if perhaps I broke a front axle or something..

Keeping in mind that I know I have good hydraulic pressure because the 210 loader arms work with no problem, the 54C MMM works perfect so I know at least the PTO and stuff works, and I can go forward but not reverse.

So, I went out to the machine put it into 2WD and it works perfectly! I get forward, reverse and the HST holds the machine as it should in 2WD.. No problems, no issues... When put into 4WD it does not go in reverse and behaves like before...

I finished mowing the turf where I could only being in 2WD... and it worked perfectly, even going down gentle grades/inclines the HST held the machine up both forward and backwards...

I drafted JD sales and service an email and fired it off to them, and actually talked to the Service Manager.. He said it sounds like a broken front axle..

When in 4WD the machine acts like it is in 2WD and on the slopes that I was on with about a 35 degree incline the 2210s HST just couldnt hold the machine and once it started to gain speed even the breaks wouldnt grip...

So we all "win" except for the JD salesman who can't now sell me a new or used tractor!

Gentlemen, I want to thank every single one of you for the help, interest and support you have freely offered to this hapless soul for without your suggestions I would have been lost!! Certainly alot poorer with a new machine that I really didnt need or want.

JD is scheduled to come and pick up the 2210 next week and if you would like I will let you all know the official outcome and cost...

Most Kind Regards,

Mike

 

[beenthere]

That's great to hear Mike. Glad you were able to separate the front axle out as the problem. Not that it is good news, but better than having to tear into the rear of the tractor for a fix.
Still not sure how it can free-wheel if the front axle is messed up inside, but can't look a gift horse in the mouth either. Let's now hope it isn't an expensive task to get it home ok.

 

[rsewill]

That's great to hear Mike. Glad you were able to separate the front axle out as the problem. Not that it is good news, but better than having to tear into the rear of the tractor for a fix.
Still not sure how it can free-wheel if the front axle is messed up inside, but can't look a gift horse in the mouth either. Let's now hope it isn't an expensive task to get it home ok.

Oh, it'll be expensive...

 

[ChinaSailor]

Oh, it'll be expensive...

When dealing with a JD dealer isnt it always?

Too bad there aren't more independent tractor repair shops than there are.. In fact I can't think of even one in the area..

It must have to do with competitive pricing and availability of parts from the manufacturer... An independent repair market isnt truly feasible if the dealer gets better pricing and availability than the independent repair shop..

Anyhow, I will let you all know how I am making out with this...

Oh, what I think what was described to me by the dealer as 'freewheeling' was probably more in line as to what happens when the 2210 is in 2wd going down a 30+ degree slope after momentum begins to build up..

Today I did some tests on non-life threatening short inclines at 15 degree grades or less and found that the HST gear currently behaves exactly the same in 4wd as it does in 2wd.

My wife says that God was looking out for me yesterday when after 3 hours every single 1023/1026 w/ MMM that was demo'd and none of them worked properly, which ultimately made me decide not to get the Series 1.

Now have to believe that replacing an axle, or perhaps just some linkage, will not or should not cost as much as delving into a transmission I still have to rely upon the JD dealer not to completely rip me off and be an honest broker.

If that happens then it will be cheaper for me to go out and buy a trailer to put the 2210 (or any future tractor) on and take it to other JD dealers that are outside of my most immediate area for servicing if needed.

In fact if I had the time I would do that now just to get some second and third opinions and price quotes.

But, let's see what the dealer does - hopefully they aren't one of the dealerships that JD is contemplating on consolidating which would make them not care about future business and customer loyalty.

Mike

 

[scrappy isb67]

Anyhow, I will let you all know how I am making out with this...

Oh, what I think what was described to me by the dealer as 'freewheeling' was probably more in line as to what happens when the 2210 is in 2wd going down a 30+ degree slope after momentum begins to build up..

Today I did some tests on non-life threatening short inclines at 15 degree grades or less and found that the HST gear currently behaves exactly the same in 4wd as it does in 2wd.

Now I have to believe that replacing an axle, or perhaps just some linkage, will not or should not cost as much as delving into a transmission I still have to rely upon the JD dealer not to completely rip me off and be an honest broker.

Mike

don't rule out the trans just yet, it still could be the MFWD drive gears/shafts in the trans that are bad. have someone els drive it and have a look and see it the front driveshaft is turning while moving.

 

[ChinaSailor]

don't rule out the trans just yet, it still could be the MFWD drive gears/shafts in the trans that are bad. have someone els drive it and have a look and see it the front driveshaft is turning while moving.

I will check that tomorrow...

So in 4wd if the front driveshaft is moving (that is a good thing) but still experience no reverse then it is the front axle.

But, if in 4wd the front driveshaft is NOT moving then that is a bad thing indicating that it is 4wd linkage in the transmission..

Correct?

As you can tell I am not a motor head and need to keep it simple!

Mike

 

[scrappy isb67]

I will check that tomorrow...

So in 4wd if the front driveshaft is moving (that is a good thing) but still experience no reverse then it is the front axle.

But, if in 4wd the front driveshaft is NOT moving then that is a bad thing indicating that it is 4wd linkage in the transmission..

Correct?

As you can tell I am not a motor head and need to keep it simple!

Mike

if the front DS is turning it is NOT the front axle and the problem is in the transmission.

if it is not turning then it IS the axle.

it might be easier to jack up the frontend and turn both front wheels in both directions(fwd/rev) and see if the DS turns. also while it is up put it back in 4wd and try to turn the front wheels and see if you can. With it in 4wd you should not be able to turn the front wheels.

 

[Houkie]

Hi Mike,
very curious if there is something gone bad in the front axle. maybe it's just one little gear (most of them just $30-$50) and John Deere will give you a quote of a whole new component ( like differential $875, final drive $400) and to get to it they would charge you all the hours. If you would trade it in they quote you the whole deal and they just put a new little piece in and making big $$ selling it. a bigger tractor would be very helpful on your sloped ground, but me being a mom I pulled the whole front axle apart, so if you want to get your hands dirty you can do this too. Although you might not have the knowledge what really was bad you could pull the front axle from underneath and start unbolting the big pieces and bring those pieces to JD. By doing this yourself, I think this you would already save a ton. Since I have to put today my front axle back together i will make some pics in case you need them. Just let me know if it is something in the front and I will walk you through it. ( privately).

 

[ChinaSailor]

Hi Mike,
very curious if there is something gone bad in the front axle. maybe it's just one little gear (most of them just $30-$50) and John Deere will give you a quote of a whole new component ( like differential $875, final drive $400) and to get to it they would charge you all the hours. If you would trade it in they quote you the whole deal and they just put a new little piece in and making big $$ selling it. a bigger tractor would be very helpful on your sloped ground, but me being a mom I pulled the whole front axle apart, so if you want to get your hands dirty you can do this too. Although you might not have the knowledge what really was bad you could pull the front axle from underneath and start unbolting the big pieces and bring those pieces to JD. By doing this yourself, I think this you would already save a ton. Since I have to put today my front axle back together i will make some pics in case you need them. Just let me know if it is something in the front and I will walk you through it. ( privately).[/QUOTE>

Ok Gentlemen, I think we have it pinpointed to the Tranny...

In 2WD everything works, works well, forward and reverse, FEL and MMM and the HST holds the tractor on inclines as it should.

In 4WD I have forward but no reverse, FEL and MMM work no problem, and the HST behaves like it's in 2WD.

Further Testing:

I used my bucket to raise the front wheels off the ground and found the following:

In 2WD:
In neutral Drive Shaft turns freely when front wheels are turned manually.
In lo gear drive Shaft turns freely when front wheels are turned manually.
Both conditions as to be expected.

In 4WD:
In neutral Drive Shaft turns freely when the front wheels turn freely and are NOT locked!

In lo gear drive shaft does NOT turn and front wheels do NOT turn when trying to move forward. Also front wheels turn freely when manually turned!!!! The tranny is not locking the Front Drive Shaft and Front Wheels.

So, the problem appears to be the 4WD linkage in the transmission! ****!

After Action Report:

After a fair amount of investigation I can only deduce the following which resulted in said "wild ride" with 2210 doing a wheelie:

I was mowing the turf in 4WD & Lo Gear going up the hill in reverse as I have for 8 years when the 4WD linkage or rod in the tranny got disconnected, broke, or something.

This resulted in the front wheels being "free wheeling", essentially turning the tractor into 2WD and I didn't know it... The broken/failed linkage was also preventing me from going in reverse, jamming something.

(In the 8 years that I have had the 2210 I don't think it has been in 2WD more than the very few times I found it to be life threatening to be in that mode...)

When I put the transmission into neutral and then back into lo gear and began a forward descent speed began to pick up and the rear wheels couldn't hold it just by themselves - too much weight with a 35 degree incline.. remember, my 2210 has foam filled front and rear tires which signifcantly add to the weight of the machine....

When I tried to apply the brakes the machine had too much downward momentum with the weight and began to slide, all the while gaining more momentum....

So gentlemen, I think that this is the best I can do in troubleshooting where the problem is and in trying to determine cost....

Best Case Scenario: Tranny has to come off, at best MFWD 4WD linkage gets put back on or replaced.

Anyone have a best case scenario cost estimate? Besides big bucks?

I think I may invest in a trailer hitch and rent a trailer to make the 2210 mobile which would save me $200. in having the dealer do a pickup/dropoff AND maybe I can get it to another JD dealer for a second opinion...

Do you gentlemen agree with the assessment and next steps?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[Houkie]

If you don't have account with JD and you don't have pricelist go to dowdatractor.com they have all pics and prices with it. If you live rural get in touch with a farmer. They always know some handy guys and might love to work for you and probably have equipment to haul to. Try to post a "help" on the big JD tractor forums, mentioning your location and see if anybody can pinpoint what you need to have fixed or they know someone...Walk into transmission shop and just ask what's wrong with the knowledge you have now. Wait for more answers on this forum. I would try to avoid JD dealer. Wish you lots of luck. Sorry I can't help you more.

 

[beenthere]

No one, not even the dealers' mechanics, will be able to estimate a cost figure until the actual problem is known.
They can give you hauling costs, estimate the tractor splitting costs (as you say you know it is in the tranny), and add up the replacement of fluids. But beyond that, they don't have a crystal ball and will somewhat have to play it by ear at so much an hour.
Myself, I'd go to my dealer and hold my breath. Your time and interest in doing it yourself or going elsewhere to try cheaper will have to be your call.
The Deere mechanics that I know at my dealer are great guys and trustworthy. The ones that I've known over the past 15 years there that were on the sneaky side didn't last very long. The good ones don't want to hear that they didn't solve the problem and have the job come back for re-work. Nor did the owner of the dealership want to hear such things either.
However, they also know if someone is playing one dealer against another for low-ball price. They are more fair to a customer who is a good customer and likely to continue to be a customer. Just common sense to cultivate good customers and treat them good so they will come back. They don't get gov't subsidies to operate their business like so many of us see happening nowadays.
This isn't meant to be a lecture as you are free to do what you want, but just a reminder that we have expensive machines and they will break down on occasion. It takes money to have someone else do the work for us, when we can't/won't do it ourselves.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Myself, I'd go to my dealer and hold my breath.

However, they also know if someone is playing one dealer against another for low-ball price. They are more fair to a customer who is a good customer and likely to continue to be a customer.

They don't get gov't subsidies to operate their business like so many of us see happening nowadays.
This isn't meant to be a lecture as you are free to do what you want, but just a reminder .

I'm shocked, just shocked that you hate capitalism so much and the American Way! Just Shocked! :confused2:

I truly didn't think from the tone of the email that you were one of them liberal progressive left-wing commie-loving pinko free-market-hating "down with competition" flag-burning 99 percenters ! :laughing:

I'm with YOU! I think we should have fixed prices for gasoline, groceries, for everything! If I go to a 7/11 I want to pay the exact same price for a bag of chips or a gallon of unleaded that I would pay at any other convenience store or gas station!

I Agree! Lack of competition and monopolistic practices is the way we roll Mister! We're Americans, proud of it, and that's how we like it!

:thumbsup:

 

[jim2210]

Mike,

Not to change the subject or turn the discussion, but I figure with your type of usage with a 2210 you'd be the perfect one to ask. Did you ever have a problem with the u-joints on the driveshaft? Many have had problems with them around the 400 hour mark, mostly because of the nearly impossible task of greasing them. Just wondering if you ever had a problem with them and if you greased them or not.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Mike,

Not to change the subject or turn the discussion, but I figure with your type of usage with a 2210 you'd be the perfect one to ask. Did you ever have a problem with the u-joints on the driveshaft? Many have had problems with them around the 400 hour mark, mostly because of the nearly impossible task of greasing them. Just wondering if you ever had a problem with them and if you greased them or not.

Jim,

I think the 2210 has sealed driveshaft U-joints. When I was under it the other day I made a specific point to see if there were any grease fittings and I didnt see any.

If the U-joint is make squeaking noises it may have to be replaced, and that is the LAST thing you want to break especially if you are on an incline and counting on the 4WD/HST/Lo Gear to keep you from having a wild ride down!

However since we are on ths subject make sure that you put grease into the front differential whenever you greast the front suspensions ball joints - which should be often.

I am just hoping that fixing the 4WD trasmission linkage isn't going to be too costly - I REALLY liked the 2210 and would get another one.

In looking at the 2305 I liked that as well as it addressed a few mechanical issues that I found inconvenient with the 2210, but other than that I think I would get a 2305 as well... And still may consider that since I do not like the 1023/1026 and want to stay Green.

Mike

 

[jim2210]

Mike,

That's reassuring that you haven't had any problems with the u-joints. It sounds like you have the sealed joints, where mine have grease fittings. You can see them, but nearly have to take the tractor apart to get at them (which I haven't been able to get at :mur . From what I understand, some had fittings while others didn't. I spoke with my dealer who said that they haven't had any problems with owners coming in to have the joints replaced and were unaware of any issues. I figured with the stress that your terrain must put on them I was curious if you ever had an issue or if you had any particular maintenance routine for them.

I also hope that your issue is resolved with minimal cost & headaches. The 2210 is a great machine & like you, hope to get many years out of it. Certainly keep us posted!