Changing blades on flail mower to suit conditions?

[sodamo]

I have the 68 inch Value Leader efgch175 flail from Betsco. It can use either 28 hammers or 56 grass Y blades. It has 28 mounting stations for either 1 hammer or 2 halves of the Y blade. I can change them out in an hour or so.

David

 

[beppington]

I have the 68 inch Value Leader efgch175 flail from Betsco. It can use either 28 hammers or 56 grass Y blades. It has 28 mounting stations for either 1 hammer or 2 halves of the Y blade. I can change them out in an hour or so.

David

David - Which provides a better lawn-type cut result, the hammers or Y-blades?

 

[leonz]

Not to hijack the thread and if you do not mind me butting in here Beppington:

The recutting ability is affected by the total cutting edge length offered along the front of the flailmower at any point in the mowing work

The longer side slicers permit the two row rotor to take advantage of the
height of cut by allowing the longer knive distance from the hanger hole to the bend of the side slicer knive to make up for the lack of knives when mowing with a two row flail mower rotor-but the two row unit will be working harder as it has many fewer knives to do the job requiring two revolutions to each single revolution of a 4 row flail mower rotor.


Using my case specifically the rotor has 4 rows of side slicers which allow it to cut and recut with little effort because each row has 32 side slicers with 3 inches of cutting edge exposed per pair of side slicers at any time.

The nice thing about a four row rotor is that you do not need a large can of
whoop A** to mow with when you are up to the recommended engine speed for the 540 R.P.M., integral implement(flail mower) The rotor though much smaller than mine is its own flywheel of sorts. I keep hoping that they will offer a flail mower rotor with the short knives to take advantage of the centrifugal force offered by a larger rotor to make mowing easier.

The side slicer knives I have pivot and also have a slotted mounting arrangement which allows them to become an airfoil which also creates lift in addition to the two air paddles located on the flail mowers rotor which lift the cuttings up and over the flail mower rotor.

The slower you travel with a flail mower with two or more rows of knives the finer the cut will be and a second pass will leave tiny clippings if your able
to maintain a mowing schedule.

A two row rotor will have slightly longer cutting edges per knive pair because the side slicers are stationary and only pivot (mine are 1.5 inches long) and clippings in heavy brush but there is no reason you cannot overlap slightly or reverse direction when mowing at the end to re-mow the same area. The second pass will put very little stress on the engine of your tractor if you have kept up with mowing. But if not mowing slower works very well.

Its a Potato, Potatoe kind of thing where either mower will do as long as you have the power to run it properly at the 540 RPM engine speed for the rear power take off.

 

[beppington]

The "Y" knives on my dad's Caroni TM1900BSC result in a "good" cut but not quite great, & not quite equal to a finish mower ... which is what I'd like, if possible.

I think that part of the reason is that the flail has less upward vacuum. And I think another reason is that the Y knives cut like this:

 

[sodamo]

David - Which provides a better lawn-type cut result, the hammers or Y-blades?

I wish I knew LOL

Seriously, when I had the hammers installed, I kinda abused them. We had a lot of pig damage and I used the hammers as "ground engaging" in those tore up areas. Did a great job smoothing things out while doing a great job on the grass. I say grass, but the reality we are talking a mowed pasture that grew from abandoned sugar cane fields. No seed, no fertilizer, just mow. I liked that with the hammers I could expand into uncut areas, even taking down the occasional guava or wainaku grass. I also did my share or rocks. I used the hammers until they were well worn and I didn't have any replacements for a broken one.

My first cut with the Y knifes and I was less impressed. I think because the grass was somewhat thin and less grown. I've been tempted to go back to hammers, but as that would require buying a complete set, I haven't. Now that I've used the Ys for more than a year, I feel better. Nice cut, especially in the thicker, tall stuff. I'm usually disappointed if I mow too soon or in the thinner, wispy stuff as it leaves a few stragglers, but I don't let it bother me. I've only replaced one Y, much more rock tolerant. I should flip them to the sharper side.

I have spent a little time wondering about scoops as I suspect they are sharper than the hammers, but I haven't found a set yet.

So, bottom line, I'm happy with both, but don't feel I've really used them in an apples to apples comparison. I really like my flail though. I was seriously looking to buy a 48in Caroni with F rotor for my wife to use behind our CK30, but had a tremendous opportunity, small, very well maintained Scag Zcat from a neighbor for only 2K. The one time I used it, I wasn't more impressed than my flail cut.

Sorry I couldn't give a more clear cut answer.

David

 

[sodamo]

The "Y" knives on my dad's Caroni TM1900BSC result in a "good" cut but not quite great, & not quite equal to a finish mower ... which is what I'd like, if possible.

I think that part of the reason is that the flail has less upward vacuum. And I think another reason is that the Y knives cut like this:

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=264506"/>

YES, good illustration. I'd say that shows exactly how my Y knives cut, even the stragglers . Mine hang from the rotor, just a round bolt, no slot, o I really don't think I get the airfoil effect Leonz talks about..

David

 

[kthompson]

The "Y" knives on my dad's Caroni TM1900BSC result in a "good" cut but not quite great, & not quite equal to a finish mower ... which is what I'd like, if possible.

I think that part of the reason is that the flail has less upward vacuum. And I think another reason is that the Y knives cut like this:

View attachment 264506

I tried a Caroni and took it back for that reason. It is my impression since then the theory is it will rotate fast enough the centrifugal force causes the cutter to sort of move up on the rounded hander and thus change the angle the angled blade is cutting at to where it is leaivng a flat cut. The theory may be good but did not work for me. I do like a flail mower. But not sure have really seen anyone used for true finish lawn cutting.You also have the issue of the roller being in contact as you turn or must lift cutter each time you make a major turn.

 

[leonz]

The side slicers on the Caroni are stationary and are unable to move to create the air foil to allow the cutting edge to become a horizontal wing.

This is why the cut on good turf takes a little more work but the finish rotor does not have this issue due to the high knive count.


The Caroni four row rotor/the F rotor/finish mower overcomes this issue with
the four rows of knives which constantly overlap and create a nice flat cut.

I am certainly hoping the Caroni folks add a front and rear tire option to allow the end user to make better use of their flail mowers of all types as adding the front and rear tires prevents the skids from gouging and the roller from possibly digging in after a gopher hole.


EDIT:

Kthompson,

If you do not mind me asking why did you feel that you had to lift the mower up every time you finished a lap?


We have lots of photos on the site here with folks using Mott mowers with the finish rotor and they have good results. The key to a nice finish on good or poor turf is high knive count on the rotor and the proper rotor speed at 540 rpm with an integral flail mower.


_________________________________________________________________
Once you go Flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[beppington]

I tried a Caroni and took it back for that reason. It is my impression since then the theory is it will rotate fast enough the centrifugal force causes the cutter to sort of move up on the rounded hander and thus change the angle the angled blade is cutting at to where it is leaivng a flat cut. The theory may be good but did not work for me. I do like a flail mower. But not sure have really seen anyone used for true finish lawn cutting.

I have used it on a lawn mixed with St. Augustine & Bahia grasses when the Bahia stalks had started exceeding the height of the St. Augustine, & the results were just what I drew: Good job, but not great ... leaves me wanting to go over it again hoping to get the Bahia stragglers the 2nd time.

You also have the issue of the roller being in contact as you turn or must lift cutter each time you make a major turn.

Both ends of the Caroni TM1900BSC roller are rounded, so no need to lift the flail when turning. It generally glides over terrain just fine without damage. Now you do need to make sure the front of the flail is not so low that the flail's side skids dig in when turning - Maybe that's what you meant? The skids would probably glide along the terrain without doing too much terrain damage it when going straight, but would usually dig in when turning, gouging the ground. The trick there is to make sure you lower your 3 point hitch to where the skids are level with the ground, not sitting on the ground. Of course even still a skid might occasionally touch the ground.

 

[beppington]

The side slicers on the Caroni are stationary and are unable to move to create the air foil to allow the cutting edge to become a horizontal wing.

This is why the cut on good turf takes a little more work but the finish rotor does not have this issue due to the high knive count.


The Caroni four row rotor/the F rotor/finish mower overcomes this issue with
the four rows of knives which constantly overlap and create a nice flat cut.

I am certainly hoping the Caroni folks add a front and rear tire option to allow the end user to make better use of their flail mowers of all types as adding the front and rear tires prevents the skids from gouging and the roller from possibly digging in after a gopher hole.


EDIT:

Kthompson,

If you do not mind me asking why did you feel that you had to lift the mower up every time you finished a lap?


We have lots of photos on the site here with folks using Mott mowers with the finish rotor and they have good results. The key to a nice finish on good or poor turf is high knive count on the rotor and the proper rotor speed at 540 rpm with an integral flail mower.

... and keeping the flail just about as low as possible without the knives touching the ground or grass root balls :thumbsup: