"orange collar" come on she is a wild animal...... she will move between her tammed family and wild world and some day she may bring her pups for a visit. She will seek a mate, she will have a family... Yes you are her alpha tammed family but you are not her wild alpha and she will assert her dominannce and seek a mate...... and if you folks care for her you will be glad when she comes back less and less....
Found a coyote, I think
- Thread starter Raspy
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Iplayfarmer
Super Member
I have to agree with Dusty. Now that the zoo/wildlife center is not an option, I think the best situation for all of you is to give Sandy the freedom to be a wild animal and let her choose.
She may get killed or injured in the wild, but she'll surely be killed if the authorities find out you have her. There will likely be some hefty fines and possibly criminal prosecution if they find out you've been transporting her accross state lines.
kf4uda
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The only reason I would suggest the orange collar is to be fair to the coyote. She has had at least some of her natural fear of humans removed or reduced. If she approaches other humans the way she does John and his family there is a pretty good chance of her being shot. If a coyote were approaching me I would naturally assume something was wrong with it such as rabies or something. If it had a collar on I would know it has had some human interaction before and perhaps re-evaluate my next move. I am not a particular fan of coyotes but I do believe everything deserves a fair chance. I certainly agree that it would be best if she can adapt back into the wild.
OP
Raspy
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I agree that it would be best for Sandy to adapt to a wild life. That is the best of all options.
However, that isn't going to happen simply by letting her go. And we are not preventing her form going. She is not equipped to "go" and survive. That is the the very problem that we are dealing with here. She has not been trained by her mother to hunt and survive, so she most likely will be bird feed before long. She will not learn the ropes by us simply refusing her food or shelter. In the meantime, as a pup, she is taking control of her life to the degree she can imagine. She is moving out and setting up her own den, getting the feel of being alive in a big world, seeing who else is out there and how to interact.
The problem is that so many people think the answer to anything they don't understand is to shoot it, or report it to authorities, or spread fear, or butt into business that has nothing to do with them. Sandy is feared by people that have no rational basis for their fear about her in particular. So, a collar is at least some identity that "might" save her from simply being used as a target by somebody looking for something to shoot. I'm only willing to shoot real threats, but that's not always the case with others.
The problem with a collar, as I see it, is that if she returns to the wild with one on it will strangle her eventually. So I've thought of spray painting one on that would last long enough for her to assimilate and then wear off. Someone might see it and hesitate before shooting as they wondered if she was a regular dog or something. Eventually she would disappear into the wild and be "gone".
Recent developments are that my neighbor has asked a vet she knows what to do about rabies vaccine for Sandy. The vet was clear that it was illegal for her to treat a coyote. The vet also recommended I call the animal control people for advice. What?! That sounds like a setup.
My other neighbor is telling her friends that I should get rid of Sandy now. So she is also a problem waiting to happen.
This will eventually come to a head and be over. Hopefully it will be a good ending and not some animal control officer throwing a net over her and gassing her in a box somewhere. Even that would probably be better than her being shot. Either ending would be a heartbreaker for us. And the reason it would be a heartbreaker, is that we know her better than anyone and we not only are not afraid of her but we relate to her as a friend. We trust her, we are fascinated by her and she trusts us. Simple as that.
Some folks are genuinely curious and some are knee jerk scared. One will hold Sandy and cherish her, the other will recoil and stay way back. Sandy simply is Sandy. Some are immediately scared of a little puppy, and some want to pet her and talk to her. No one has been threatened or hurt. No one has seen anything that a normal dog wouldn't do. Here's the bottom line: Some are curious and some are reactionary. Some wonder at the natural world that surrounds us and some hide in fear of it.
We are a stable, trusted and sensible couple that are curious about our surroundings. Neighbors look to us for support, advice and friendship. We value life and the wildlife around us. In fact, we chose this place, in part, because of all of it's natural wonder and wildlife. We have other dogs and love them. We are not stupid enough to take chances with the mountain lions, bears and rattlesnakes that also live near us. I am always armed when I go out into the open lands, which I do a lot. In fact, I spend a great deal of my time exploring the mountains around us. I'm not a hunter, but I will protect my family and myself if needed, and I'm prepared to do so.
All of this factors into this whole situation. Believe me, if Sandy walked away tomorrow and into a life in the wild where she could take care of herself, I would be overjoyed. A beautiful, strong, healthy, smart and very self aware little neighbor would be realizing her true potential and living the life she was designed for. Good. Excellent. Beautiful.
I saved her from certain death and gave her, at the last minute before she froze to death, at least a chance of life. She brought information from the wild about herself and her world that is tremendously touching, beautiful and fun. Now it's controversy, laws, fear driven advice, gossip, and threats. All around a little puppy. It's disgusting.
And before some of you naysayers jump in with all the "what ifs", I want to assure you that I'm not saying all coyotes are fine and that none of them are dangerous. I'm not saying they don't kill valued farm animals and that they don't carry disease. I'm not saying they should be blindly accepted under all circumstances. Not at all. But, I am saying that most people don't understand them at all. That too many folks are fear driven without logic and that any dog owner or dog lover already knows a lot about coyotes. In fact I'll expand it to say that anyone with a bit of curiosity and a heart would likely be interested in learning more about the wild world all around us, and in particular, a very interesting dog that is a significant part of that world.
So, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Thanks again to you all that have given us good advice. Thanks to you all that have shown support to this little underdog. The little desert survivor. This evening, once again, Sandy is well and completely oblivious to all the turmoil her existence has stirred up.
She went out this morning at 5:30, as the day began. A stretch and a look at the possibilities in front of her, I imagine. Untethered, she then trotted off to her new den, the one she developed, and settled for a morning nap. Later, Liye called and got no response from the sleepy dog. So she sent Bei Bei to get her. Bei Bei went right to the den and ventured only half way in. Some conversation must have ensued, and the pair came back to liye. Sandy looking very sleepy and Bei Bei wagging her tail as fast as ever.
However, that isn't going to happen simply by letting her go. And we are not preventing her form going. She is not equipped to "go" and survive. That is the the very problem that we are dealing with here. She has not been trained by her mother to hunt and survive, so she most likely will be bird feed before long. She will not learn the ropes by us simply refusing her food or shelter. In the meantime, as a pup, she is taking control of her life to the degree she can imagine. She is moving out and setting up her own den, getting the feel of being alive in a big world, seeing who else is out there and how to interact.
The problem is that so many people think the answer to anything they don't understand is to shoot it, or report it to authorities, or spread fear, or butt into business that has nothing to do with them. Sandy is feared by people that have no rational basis for their fear about her in particular. So, a collar is at least some identity that "might" save her from simply being used as a target by somebody looking for something to shoot. I'm only willing to shoot real threats, but that's not always the case with others.
The problem with a collar, as I see it, is that if she returns to the wild with one on it will strangle her eventually. So I've thought of spray painting one on that would last long enough for her to assimilate and then wear off. Someone might see it and hesitate before shooting as they wondered if she was a regular dog or something. Eventually she would disappear into the wild and be "gone".
Recent developments are that my neighbor has asked a vet she knows what to do about rabies vaccine for Sandy. The vet was clear that it was illegal for her to treat a coyote. The vet also recommended I call the animal control people for advice. What?! That sounds like a setup.
My other neighbor is telling her friends that I should get rid of Sandy now. So she is also a problem waiting to happen.
This will eventually come to a head and be over. Hopefully it will be a good ending and not some animal control officer throwing a net over her and gassing her in a box somewhere. Even that would probably be better than her being shot. Either ending would be a heartbreaker for us. And the reason it would be a heartbreaker, is that we know her better than anyone and we not only are not afraid of her but we relate to her as a friend. We trust her, we are fascinated by her and she trusts us. Simple as that.
Some folks are genuinely curious and some are knee jerk scared. One will hold Sandy and cherish her, the other will recoil and stay way back. Sandy simply is Sandy. Some are immediately scared of a little puppy, and some want to pet her and talk to her. No one has been threatened or hurt. No one has seen anything that a normal dog wouldn't do. Here's the bottom line: Some are curious and some are reactionary. Some wonder at the natural world that surrounds us and some hide in fear of it.
We are a stable, trusted and sensible couple that are curious about our surroundings. Neighbors look to us for support, advice and friendship. We value life and the wildlife around us. In fact, we chose this place, in part, because of all of it's natural wonder and wildlife. We have other dogs and love them. We are not stupid enough to take chances with the mountain lions, bears and rattlesnakes that also live near us. I am always armed when I go out into the open lands, which I do a lot. In fact, I spend a great deal of my time exploring the mountains around us. I'm not a hunter, but I will protect my family and myself if needed, and I'm prepared to do so.
All of this factors into this whole situation. Believe me, if Sandy walked away tomorrow and into a life in the wild where she could take care of herself, I would be overjoyed. A beautiful, strong, healthy, smart and very self aware little neighbor would be realizing her true potential and living the life she was designed for. Good. Excellent. Beautiful.
I saved her from certain death and gave her, at the last minute before she froze to death, at least a chance of life. She brought information from the wild about herself and her world that is tremendously touching, beautiful and fun. Now it's controversy, laws, fear driven advice, gossip, and threats. All around a little puppy. It's disgusting.
And before some of you naysayers jump in with all the "what ifs", I want to assure you that I'm not saying all coyotes are fine and that none of them are dangerous. I'm not saying they don't kill valued farm animals and that they don't carry disease. I'm not saying they should be blindly accepted under all circumstances. Not at all. But, I am saying that most people don't understand them at all. That too many folks are fear driven without logic and that any dog owner or dog lover already knows a lot about coyotes. In fact I'll expand it to say that anyone with a bit of curiosity and a heart would likely be interested in learning more about the wild world all around us, and in particular, a very interesting dog that is a significant part of that world.
So, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Thanks again to you all that have given us good advice. Thanks to you all that have shown support to this little underdog. The little desert survivor. This evening, once again, Sandy is well and completely oblivious to all the turmoil her existence has stirred up.
She went out this morning at 5:30, as the day began. A stretch and a look at the possibilities in front of her, I imagine. Untethered, she then trotted off to her new den, the one she developed, and settled for a morning nap. Later, Liye called and got no response from the sleepy dog. So she sent Bei Bei to get her. Bei Bei went right to the den and ventured only half way in. Some conversation must have ensued, and the pair came back to liye. Sandy looking very sleepy and Bei Bei wagging her tail as fast as ever.
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s219
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Wow, she's growing like a weed! I sincerely hope things work out for you all.
MotorSeven
Elite Member
I always marvel at folks reaction to certain animals. A few days ago we were headed up the driveway and a really large(6'-ish) black snake was starting to cross but had stopped. My wife stopped so the snake would not try and dart under the wheels. When he still didn't move I got out to see why he was so sluggish. Ahhh, must have had a big wood rat meal since he was sporting quite a belly. I picked him up by the tail and both of us looked him over for a min before I set him down on the other side of the drive.
With 10 different couples, that scenario would have played out in many ways. Some would have run him over, shot at, ignored, never picked him up 'cause they are "slimy", etc.
Fear has tragic results for a lot of wildlife. So whenever I am around others and especially kids and a "critter" is found, I go out of my way to show them not to fear. Respect is needed for some animals, but fear really has no place at all.
With 10 different couples, that scenario would have played out in many ways. Some would have run him over, shot at, ignored, never picked him up 'cause they are "slimy", etc.
Fear has tragic results for a lot of wildlife. So whenever I am around others and especially kids and a "critter" is found, I go out of my way to show them not to fear. Respect is needed for some animals, but fear really has no place at all.
BMod
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John, please ignore the haters, and continue posting, we are all getting a nature lesson here, and we have you and your wife to thank for it. It is great reading your posts, I thank you for the time you spend describing what is going on, it's like reading a book, but with a hands on real time feel to it. Once again, thank you, and keep on posting.....Brian
Redbug
Veteran Member
Yup...I enjoy reading your daily posts. Sandy sure is cute! I notice your writing skills...This would make a great story for a children's book...
RandyBell
Silver Member
John; Sandy is growing up well, and I do believe that given time she will learn to hunt and survive, after all she has her instincts. The main thing you guys are supporting her through the adolence time, she learned to make her own den, you didn't show her. Through her hunting of the lizards and other small critters she will learn what she needs to survive.
It is unfortunate that such a person would take up veternary shop, I would have serious doubts about using them for any of they animals, because they arleady showed it was a business not a love for animals. There has been contraversy about rabies vaccine on the other canines but our wolves have been getting them for years without any problem. Europe put out bait with vaccine in it to eliminate rabies over there, but it is beneath some to attempt it here.
As far as people being (reluctant) around her we get the same at times around here. It really gets you when they are petting and loving on them then learn what they are and jump back. They didn't change, just the big bad wolf syndrome in action.
Just love and support her she will make her decision hopefully before one is made for her.. Keep taking pics we all love to see how she is growing.
Randy
It is unfortunate that such a person would take up veternary shop, I would have serious doubts about using them for any of they animals, because they arleady showed it was a business not a love for animals. There has been contraversy about rabies vaccine on the other canines but our wolves have been getting them for years without any problem. Europe put out bait with vaccine in it to eliminate rabies over there, but it is beneath some to attempt it here.
As far as people being (reluctant) around her we get the same at times around here. It really gets you when they are petting and loving on them then learn what they are and jump back. They didn't change, just the big bad wolf syndrome in action.
Just love and support her she will make her decision hopefully before one is made for her.. Keep taking pics we all love to see how she is growing.
Randy
OP
Raspy
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About 2 1/2 years ago we began to find bird feathers in the back yard of our other house. After a while we discovered there was a kitty living in our shed. We had three dogs at the time and she was being a stealth cat. Liye invited her out for a snack and told the dogs not to chase her. Soon she had moved in and is still with us today out in the wilds of Nevada. We call her Kitty. We took Kitty to the vet, after she adopted us, to get her shots and have her checked out. The vet said "what's her name", Liye said "Kitty", the vet said "we know she's a kitty, what's her name?", Liye said "we call her Kitty", the vet said (in a strained tone) "we KNOW she's a kitty, but what is her name?" Liye said "we just call her Kitty". At that point I stepped up to the counter and said, very clearly, "her name is Kitty". The receptionist said "oh yeah, why not just call her Kitty?".
Kitty and Bei Bei like each other but have never been able to figure out a game that they each like and understand. Enter Sandy.
We began to notice that Kitty was not afraid of Sandy and would always hold her ground. She might hiss if she waned to be left alone, but wasn't preparing for a battle. Then Sandy began to chase Kitty and it seemed like an annoyance to the cat more than fun. Now Kitty is batting Sandy and playing with her. Sandy chases kitty and they romp around the yard having fun. But if Kitty does growl at Sandy and seems irritated, Bei Bei will run right over and get between them. She is always protecting Sandy, but with Kitty involved, it seems more like concern over disorder than recognizing a threat. A peacemaker. A concerned family member.
Instead of Sandy just going free during the day and in at night, she is now free all the time unless we want her under better control. She is only leashed in the house and occasionally on the front porch, if needed. She has spent the last few nights in her den. We went out with Bei Bei this morning and told her to go get Sandy. Bei Bei looks in the den and her tail wags. Out comes Sandy looking sleepy and glad to see us all. A nice period of play, treats and romping around, then she just wanted to go to her perch and survey the situation. Get some sun. Sniff the air and be a dog.
It's been cold recently too. Windy, rain and hail. Apparently, she is fine outside and comes out of her den warm. It doesn't bother her a bit.
She is clearly less interested in being with us in the house. Loves us and greets us, but then settles into a dog routine of her own, outside. We are just part of her world. It seems she is now self assured and is just being who she is. Not so dependent like in the earlier weeks.
We are minimizing her food and looking for ways to encourage her to hunt. She seems not very hungry lately. Liye has seen her eating the leaves of the desert peach and some grass. She found a dry rabbit leg to play with and chew. She likes beetles and ants. We are not sure how much time she spends looking for food since she lives in her den now. There are lots of rabbits running around here, but we haven't seen her chase on yet.
So, things are progressing nicely at this point. She is much happier and so are we. She knows how to be a coyote better than we do. The transition to the wild continues. Now we need to get her to the point where she can hunt adequately to support herself.
Her personality seems like half cat and half dog. Shy, sleeps a lot during the day, bats with her paws, crouches and pounces on bugs and never barks. Like a cat. But in all other ways she is a typical dog with her displays of status, growling, chewing, wanting treats, using her mouth for expression, energetic playing and running around.
What an interesting little dog! We have now been taking care of her for two months and she was probably 3 days old when our neighbor picked her up. One thing keeps coming up in all of our observances, that is how fast she is growing and maturing. Without exaggeration I can say we see have seen changes in her from day to day. Bigger one day, a color change the next, ears bigger one day, vision better the next, a new trick one day, and able to do something harder the next, etc. I guess this is the way of the wild where predators abound and competition for resources is heavy. Animals must come up to speed as soon as they can. She seems to know exactly what she needs and where she is going.
Kitty and Bei Bei like each other but have never been able to figure out a game that they each like and understand. Enter Sandy.
We began to notice that Kitty was not afraid of Sandy and would always hold her ground. She might hiss if she waned to be left alone, but wasn't preparing for a battle. Then Sandy began to chase Kitty and it seemed like an annoyance to the cat more than fun. Now Kitty is batting Sandy and playing with her. Sandy chases kitty and they romp around the yard having fun. But if Kitty does growl at Sandy and seems irritated, Bei Bei will run right over and get between them. She is always protecting Sandy, but with Kitty involved, it seems more like concern over disorder than recognizing a threat. A peacemaker. A concerned family member.
Instead of Sandy just going free during the day and in at night, she is now free all the time unless we want her under better control. She is only leashed in the house and occasionally on the front porch, if needed. She has spent the last few nights in her den. We went out with Bei Bei this morning and told her to go get Sandy. Bei Bei looks in the den and her tail wags. Out comes Sandy looking sleepy and glad to see us all. A nice period of play, treats and romping around, then she just wanted to go to her perch and survey the situation. Get some sun. Sniff the air and be a dog.
It's been cold recently too. Windy, rain and hail. Apparently, she is fine outside and comes out of her den warm. It doesn't bother her a bit.
She is clearly less interested in being with us in the house. Loves us and greets us, but then settles into a dog routine of her own, outside. We are just part of her world. It seems she is now self assured and is just being who she is. Not so dependent like in the earlier weeks.
We are minimizing her food and looking for ways to encourage her to hunt. She seems not very hungry lately. Liye has seen her eating the leaves of the desert peach and some grass. She found a dry rabbit leg to play with and chew. She likes beetles and ants. We are not sure how much time she spends looking for food since she lives in her den now. There are lots of rabbits running around here, but we haven't seen her chase on yet.
So, things are progressing nicely at this point. She is much happier and so are we. She knows how to be a coyote better than we do. The transition to the wild continues. Now we need to get her to the point where she can hunt adequately to support herself.
Her personality seems like half cat and half dog. Shy, sleeps a lot during the day, bats with her paws, crouches and pounces on bugs and never barks. Like a cat. But in all other ways she is a typical dog with her displays of status, growling, chewing, wanting treats, using her mouth for expression, energetic playing and running around.
What an interesting little dog! We have now been taking care of her for two months and she was probably 3 days old when our neighbor picked her up. One thing keeps coming up in all of our observances, that is how fast she is growing and maturing. Without exaggeration I can say we see have seen changes in her from day to day. Bigger one day, a color change the next, ears bigger one day, vision better the next, a new trick one day, and able to do something harder the next, etc. I guess this is the way of the wild where predators abound and competition for resources is heavy. Animals must come up to speed as soon as they can. She seems to know exactly what she needs and where she is going.
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