Ground clamp is hot

oliver28472 · May 31, 2012

undercut said:
Aha! OK, lightbulb on. Now, that makes the past few posts so much clearer. Yes, does sound like some crossed wires (sorry for the pun). I believe the OP is talking about electrically hot as in "tingly".

Bingo!

PHIL850 · Jun 2, 2012

Your Plug (outlet) looks like my old 220VAC 50 AMp outlet. There is no ground with these. you have two hots and a neutral. Older plugin AC welders ( I have a very old Lincoln) use a very large transformer to step down voltage and boost current. The Primary should be Isolated from the secondary, otherwise, the leads would be at full potential, a lethal situation! I would guess you were feeling some leakage current off your welding lead, mine will do the same. You could fire the unit up and check with a volt meter from either lead to a good know ground. If you read 120VAC that is not good. You won't see 220VAC to ground as the feed to your house should be off a transformer at the pole and the center tap (neutral) is what is grounded back at the main panel.

hope this helps, Phil C.

Mark @ Everlast · Jun 2, 2012

240 V Welder circuits use 2 hots and a GROUND, not a neutral.

oliver28472 · Jun 2, 2012

I'll try to check out a few things tomorrow. Have been sidetracked, brake job, bush hogging etc. Will probably help make hay tomorrow.

yelbike · Jun 2, 2012

PHIL850 said:
Your Plug (outlet) looks like my old 220VAC 50 AMp outlet. There is no ground with these. you have two hots and a neutral. Older plugin AC welders ( I have a very old Lincoln) use a very large transformer to step down voltage and boost current. The Primary should be Isolated from the secondary, otherwise, the leads would be at full potential, a lethal situation! I would guess you were feeling some leakage current off your welding lead, mine will do the same. You could fire the unit up and check with a volt meter from either lead to a good know ground. If you read 120VAC that is not good. You won't see 220VAC to ground as the feed to your house should be off a transformer at the pole and the center tap (neutral) is what is grounded back at the main panel.

hope this helps, Phil C.

Likely NOT a neutral, no need for a neutral. There's only one load in the welder: a transformer(240v primary with no other loads, there is no need for a 120v source.) I don't want to sound testy, its not a ground, its bonding conductor.

yelbike · Jun 2, 2012

Mark @ Everlast said:
240 V Welder circuits use 2 hots and a GROUND, not a neutral.

I am power electrician and a construction electrician, but I don't pretend to know everything electrical related. Are the primary and secondary side completely isolated from each other?

henryswe · Jun 2, 2012

Just a thought, I know they used to use conduit as a ground. This would create a resistance to the ground wire to ground if there is any corroding with the conduit connections.

PHIL850 · Jun 3, 2012

yelbike said:
Likely NOT a neutral, no need for a neutral. There's only one load in the welder: a transformer(240v primary with no other loads, there is no need for a 120v source.) I don't want to sound testy, its not a ground, its bonding conductor.

The OLDER 220 VAC outlets I have run accross (typicaly feeding a electric range or dryer) had a neutral lead. The outlet in the picture is typical of what i have run across in the past. Newer 220 VAC outlets for the same purpose (electric range) are now running a ground (4 wires) as well.

regards, Phil

eastexan · Jun 3, 2012

oliver28472 said:
Started getting a tingle from the ground clamp after I turned on the welder.

Where was the electrode holder when you got the tingle from the ground clamp?
Was the electrode holder or the cable that goes to it in your other hand or hanging over your arm when you touched the ground clamp?

If so, check the insulation on the cable/holder to see if there is a crack or bare spot that could have possibly made contact with part of your body.

oliver28472 · Jun 3, 2012

eastexan said:
Where was the electrode holder when you got the tingle from the ground clamp?
Was the electrode holder or the cable that goes to it in your other hand or hanging over your arm when you touched the ground clamp?

If so, check the insulation on the cable/holder to see if there is a crack or bare spot that could have possibly made contact with part of your body.

No, I was not holding the lead for the electrode holder nor was it on my arm. My leads are in good shape, no cracks. I'm probably just going to side with Mark from Everlast. I talked to my electrician and he didn't think it was a problem. Welded some more today and used gloves. I now have an autodark helmet and noticed the gloves give me more opportunities to keep going. I am welding up some tomato cages out of what we call hog wire panels. Just a weld here and there.