Environmentalists won't quit until we are walking and have no vehicles

[mrpoppy58]

That is a good article. It's a little out of date and I would bet things have gotten worse since then.

old Dumb Joe B. said he had flown over 600,000 miles since becoming VP.

Today's news - EPA wants 1,600 acres of a mans land for a Frog Habitat. For a frog that does not live there and is not suitable as a habitat for the Frog. If these E.P.A. Bozos had been around during WW11. We would have lost the War. Steam and Steel built America. Coal made the Steam and Steel.

If you value this country as it is right now you need to vote Obama out in the next election. This country is slowly changing and your rights are being taken away without you even knowing it and it will be too late if you don't do something about it now.

If these E.P.A. Bozos had been around during WW11 We would have lost the War.

 

[Johnp33]

Economic activity needs to be balanced against Victorian era pollution generation. Locally (N. America) I wish the rabid greenies would spend their time a little more productively - like say, getting Chinese polluters shutdown. A problem would be solved (gross levels of pollution), and Western factories might stand a fighting chance in the market.

I'm not going to apologize for a fellow Canadian, as it's just not my style.

What I will do is put a little context on the comments coming from British Columbia.

This is a province that has encouraged huge population growth in the Lower Mainland, but essentially built no bridges or roads since the 1950's. For 20+ years, they have not routed any public transit buses (the holy grail of green pols) over a major (ie. Trans Canada highway) bridge "because it takes too long". The province, and many of the inhabitants, like to portray themselves as "green", while they continue to idle vehicles in 10 Km+ traffic jams, which continue to grow.

Same province - a BC (ie. provincial government operated) ferry hits an island (union staff were alleged, or perhaps convicted by now, to have been on the bridge "having relations" at the time), and the ferry sinks, killing 2 people, bodies never recovered. Won't go into the union story any further, but you can likely find it quick enough.

This very green, highly socialist province has continued to leave this ferry sitting (submerged) with thousands of gallons of fuel and oil on board, in prime fishing grounds. In this case, I side with the Native Canadians, who do fish in this area - I'd be seriously pissed off too.

Same province - has finally decided (after losing something around $20 million in revenue) to install access controls (turnstiles), on a major transit line.

The economic base in BC has been allowed to erode to the point where growing dope accounts for way more revenue that Mining, Forestry, and Fishing combined.

So, what I'm getting at is that while the OP's comments may look a little strange to many TBN'ers here, they would probably pass for rational comments in BC.

But, unless you are going to move to BC, or plan to become a serious consumer of their major export crop, don't be surprised if you don't follow the logic...

Hunter said it best "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."


Rgsd, D.

They canceled the turnstiles after of course paying for them.
We pay a carbon tax, it is given to the oil companies.
Alcan, they have 20% of the province for power generation to smelt and work with Aluminum they do smelt it and after the next election we will kick them out.
We have given away the forest, to the point the US sues us over a violation of free trade.
We had the olympics, for the chosen few, bridges are all getting tolls except for the ones to the north shore, the chosen group lives their, the road to whistler, cost a billion no tolls.
They want to pump the same toxic crap that is in Keystone pipe across this province. Look up Kalamazoo oil spill.
They have given away, most every asset in the province.
The ferry it does sit on the bottom, it just came out of refit, you can buy a cruise control for a boat cheap, they never trained the crew on the new navigation system, and all the officers were off the bridge. The island they hit was only about a hundred miles long.
They have transfered all the taxes from business to the people, really sounds like a right wing bunch of free loaders to me.
We have what the Republicans will be pushing for you a Goods and Services tax, wait and watch.

 

[3930dave]

Lunatics running the asylum ?

How about them Eco Fees ? (For anybody that hasn't been to BC lately, there are Eco Fees added to just about every purchase you can imagine). Any chance there has been an independent external audit of where the money goes ? My bet is that it just slides into general provincial tax revenue.

Valid ecological initiatives are tarnished by this cloak for increased taxation.

Does wonders for retail sales/tourism in Washington state though !

Rgds, D.

 

[crazyal]

They canceled the turnstiles after of course paying for them.
We pay a carbon tax, it is given to the oil companies.
Alcan, they have 20% of the province for power generation to smelt and work with Aluminum they do smelt it and after the next election we will kick them out.
We have given away the forest, to the point the US sues us over a violation of free trade.
We had the olympics, for the chosen few, bridges are all getting tolls except for the ones to the north shore, the chosen group lives their, the road to whistler, cost a billion no tolls.
They want to pump the same toxic crap that is in Keystone pipe across this province. Look up Kalamazoo oil spill.
They have given away, most every asset in the province.
The ferry it does sit on the bottom, it just came out of refit, you can buy a cruise control for a boat cheap, they never trained the crew on the new navigation system, and all the officers were off the bridge. The island they hit was only about a hundred miles long.
They have transfered all the taxes from business to the people, really sounds like a right wing bunch of free loaders to me.
We have what the Republicans will be pushing for you a Goods and Services tax, wait and watch.

Too bad your mind is closed. Everything you've posted is just one sided. What about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, working middle class people, that will be destroyed if you had your way? What will they do? Do you even care? I'm all for clean dirt, air, and water but I also understand that people need to earn a living and for every job we destroy in our countries there will be countries like China that will gladly increase their work force. Plus having some regulations here is a lot better than no regulations over there because sooner or later what's over their will make it's way here. If you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Gator6x4]

Too bad your mind is closed. Everything you've posted is just one sided. What about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, working middle class people, that will be destroyed if you had your way? What will they do? Do you even care? I'm all for clean dirt, air, and water but I also understand that people need to earn a living and for every job we destroy in our countries there will be countries like China that will gladly increase their work force. Plus having some regulations here is a lot better than no regulations over there because sooner or later what's over their will make it's way here. If you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

Ah the old political talking points. Do you know anyone who has lost a job, beside the polluter because they have had to stop destroying the environment. I personally know hundreds who lost a job because of management and corporate greed. I know hundreds of seniors who have lost there life savings because of corporate greed. So if I am going to complain about anything it will not be about someone trying to save the environment for future generations it will be about corporate greed, management greed and Wall Street greed.

The first jobs lost were in the South, textile and furniture went to China. Next the tech jobs started being outsourced to India. Then help centers went to India, Jamacia and China and other countries where someone could be hired for 4-5 dollars or less for 8-10 hours of work.

I for one am realistic enough to know Corporations are not going to bring jobs back to the US and pay someone 20-30 per hour when they can remain in China pay 1 dollar and hour and pocket the 19 - 29 dollar per hour difference. Think about it for a moment, would you?

Reality really struck some states in the north. Large corporations had polluted the environment so much that they closed large plants and jobs and moved South after receiving large cash incentives. Now guess who is left with cleaning up the mess that was left.

The State of Michigan is appointing "Emergency Managers" to manage large cities. No elected officicals just an autocratic "Emergency Manager"(http://www.thenation.com/article/166297/scandal-michigans-emergency-managers#)

 

[lilranch2001]

Ah the old political talking points. Do you know anyone who has lost a job, beside the polluter because they have had to stop destroying the environment. I personally know hundreds who lost a job because of management and corporate greed. I know hundreds of seniors who have lost there life savings because of corporate greed. So if I am going to complain about anything it will not be about someone trying to save the environment for future generations it will be about corporate greed, management greed and Wall Street greed.

The first jobs lost were in the South, textile and furniture went to China. Next the tech jobs started being outsourced to India. Then help centers went to India, Jamacia and China and other countries where someone could be hired for 4-5 dollars or less for 8-10 hours of work.

I for one am realistic enough to know Corporations are not going to bring jobs back to the US and pay someone 20-30 per hour when they can remain in China pay 1 dollar and hour and pocket the 19 - 29 dollar per hour difference. Think about it for a moment, would you?

Reality really struck some states in the north. Large corporations had polluted the environment so much that they closed large plants and jobs and moved South after receiving large cash incentives. Now guess who is left with cleaning up the mess that was left.

The State of Michigan is appointing "Emergency Managers" to manage large cities. No elected officicals just an autocratic "Emergency Manager"(The Scandal of Michigan's Emergency Managers | The Nation)

Ahh yes, the old LIBERAL political talking points, LMAO Its funny how they never look at themselves

 

[Gator6x4]

Ahh yes, the old LIBERAL political talking points, LMAO Its funny how they never look at themselves

So far wrong not only the wrong church, wrong pew, but the wrong State. I am so far right of being a LIBERAL even Jesse Helms would be called a LIBERAL if he was standing next to me. I just don't listen to and believe political rhetoric when facts readily available disprove what was spouted from a politician痴 mouth.

A politicians objective is to lie his/her way into a taxpayer subsidized life style.

 

[toppop52]

My concern is that pollution controls on internal combustion engines since the early 1970's has improved 90% plus. Now we are going after those last few percentage points and for every percentage gain they say they obtain, the costs will go up dramatically.

That's the rub, at 90%-95% reduction per capita from 1965 until 2010, that's great, but we've paid a high price in treasure to get it. Overall the balance has settled and we can live with. Now they want more, but we've reached the point of diminishing returns. It' costs way more than the befits it we receive to get the single percentage point now. Sometimes we just have to leave well enough alone and understand that life is not without trade offs.

 

[Domush]

Too bad your mind is closed. Everything you've posted is just one sided. What about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, working middle class people, that will be destroyed if you had your way? What will they do? Do you even care? I'm all for clean dirt, air, and water but I also understand that people need to earn a living and for every job we destroy in our countries there will be countries like China that will gladly increase their work force. Plus having some regulations here is a lot better than no regulations over there because sooner or later what's over their will make it's way here. If you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

This post made me realize it's high time to get those import tariffs back into full swing. Tax imported goods according to the wage and pollution differences between the countries. If you are importing from Norway, Sweden, Germany or the like, no tariff. If from Mexico, China, India or a low wage, high polluter country, high tariff. I see it as the only way to get non polluting companies back in the US and push other countries to adopt similar pollution standards.

A clean world is not cheap, time to put the cost of pollution on the countries who cause it.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using TractorByNet

 

[toppop52]

(Bolded text) I agree...the great majority of the pollution has been eliminated from vehicles. And many states test and inspect for the anti-pollution equipment annually.
Now, the "Law of Diminishing Returns" is coming into play...for those last few percentage points. And, those are the most costly percentage points.
At this time, I think the EPA is trying to justify it's budget by promulgating unnecessary regulations.
I think (and have told my elected representatives) it's time to put the EPA on "Hold" status for 5-10 years.

Stephen Chu...typical lefty academic with no clue about real life... I wonder if he gave up his limousine?

Added:
Since a couple posts mentioned pollution in China and the Philipines...I also told my elected reps...suggested, actually, the imported goods must meet the same environmental regs (as American manufacturers) to be allowed in the US market.

Stephen Chu doesn't own a car, however his wife owns a 6 series BMW rated at mid teens MPG with premium fuel required and rides to work with a security detail using several vehicles. Of course I guess after some of the crap he says I understand the need for security!