Last farm in Township dealing with township ordinance preventing tillage, any ideas?

[CurlyDave]

The local reps in PA (especially the more rural areas) are very good with constiuent service...which is why I suggested talking to his ASAP. He can find out if the PA Right to Farm act would apply in his case before consulting a lawyer.
It wouldn't cause a political stink in this area...not for the information he needs.

I have had excellent service whenever I contacted my state reps in CA, which is about as far from PA as you can get.

The only thing I would add, is to get the name of the person in the state reps' office that you talk to.

Go down to the town office and say something like: "You know, the last time I talked to Joe Blow, over in representative Cheatem's office, he told me that this was a right-to-farm issue. Would you guys please take another look at the whole issue from that standpoint?"

By involving a higher level of politician, you will suddenly get respect and a whole different attitude from the locals.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

As a follow up:

Please be advised that you have the right to appeal the directions set forth in this Notice to Charlestown Township within 30 days of the date the notice.

If you have any questions concerning this determination, please feel free to call me...
[/I]

Sloppy wording. They don't even give you the format of the appeal or make you pin down the basis for appeal in advance. So appeal. That will shut them up for a month or more. Before you appeal, send them a notice of intent to appeal, then don't actually appeal until just before the 30 days are up.

Meanwhile, brush up on BMPs for erosion control. They really aren't that complicated, though if you have steep land you may have to limit operations during the rainy season and get the land re-seeded promptly. The idea is to keep silt and sediment out of watercourses. You are going to have to file the erosion control plan, so get to it. If you have watercourses, you may have to line the banks with those logs you are grubbing out. You may also have to dig out some sediment basins and install some hay bales to slow runoff. If you want to do work on the banks or in the channel of creek tributary to fish bearing streams you will probably need state and federal (Corps of Engineers) permits too. Don't freak out. You can do it.

All the information you need is online at http://www.elibrary.dep.state.pa.us/dsweb/View/Collection-8305/

Read it for terminology. A lot of erosion control is BS. You should request a look at a similar plan to get an idea of what is required, and if necessary request an extension of time to file the plan. Don't stop with the appeal, which puts another screw on them to be reasonable. One citation will screw up the inspector's whole day, and still doesn't guarantee compliance. If they can see any progress at all, they won't be writing any tickets.

This is from a guy with 12 years experience as a Compliance Officer and who is a certified erosion control inspector in Oregon. Who is also a farmer and small woodland owner.

They're not saying you can't farm your land, they are saying that they have to have an erosion control plan on file to satisfy the state regulators. Give them the plan, get your permit, and get on with your operation. I don't know what it costs in Pennsylvania, but in Oregon the permit will cost you $50. It's a topographic site plan of your land showing where the water runs, and where you are going to plant seeds to stabilize the soil, (usually annual ryegrass, since it dies naturally after a year), and where you are going to install gabion rock or straw bales to slow runoff. A 20' buffer of natural vegetation is as good as a silt fence.

If you want to farm, learn to do it right. You just need to be a little smarter than dirt.

 

[lockhaven]

I have had excellent service whenever I contacted my state reps in CA, which is about as far from PA as you can get.

The only thing I would add, is to get the name of the person in the state reps' office that you talk to.

Go down to the town office and say something like: "You know, the last time I talked to Joe Blow, over in representative Cheatem's office, he told me that this was a right-to-farm issue. Would you guys please take another look at the whole issue from that standpoint?"

By involving a higher level of politician, you will suddenly get respect and a whole different attitude from the locals.

actually I think you are in third place for distance Alaska and then theirs Hawaii :laughing:

 

[Oldstuff]

Larry Caldwell's post is pretty similar to what we ran into 20 years ago. We cleared trees from 20 acres in Missouri and reseeded in grasses and then was told we were required to get what I remember as a "land deviation permit". This is a state requirement so they can keep tract of what percenteage of the states contour is wooded, grassland, lakes & ponds and so on.

 

[JoeBuyer]

I wonder if that inspector has a soil and erosion control permit for mowing his lawn and picking up branches? I wonder if he has one for planting his flowers and pulling his weeds?

These permits should not apply to farming any more than they apply to someone's lawn and garden. Good luck. Hopefully your local laws haven't gone overboard.

 

[forgeblast]

Honesdale lawmaker resigns after ordering resident's lawn and garden cut without telling him - News - The Times-Tribune
Was something that made me think of this thread.
When Patrick La Tournous returned home from vacation in North Carolina a few weeks ago, he found his yard destroyed.

At first, he thought it was vandals and called police.

Later, he learned borough Councilman Nicholas Slish had hired a contractor to clean up his 1724 East St. property after a neighbor complained his grass, weeds and garden were overgrown. Mr. La Tournous never received notification from the borough, as is required by ordinance, that his property was considered blighted.

"I felt robbed," Mr. La Tournous, 42, said, when he realized someone had chopped down several expensive trees and mowed over flowers he said had sentimental value.

Then, he learned he may be receiving a $420 bill for the six hours of work it took to destroy several years of landscaping because the borough's ordinance also requires the homeowner to foot the bill for work to clean up their property.

 

[sbakf]

Some more of the same.

Examiner Local Editorial: Fauquier County steps over the line | WashingtonExaminer.com

Don't go after the inspectors - united with your neighbors, organize a political group and go after their bosses.

 

[RoyJackson]

Some more of the same.

Examiner Local Editorial: Fauquier County steps over the line | WashingtonExaminer.com

Don't go after the inspectors - united with your neighbors, organize a political group and go after their bosses.

Good post and link...and that's exactly what I think is happening to the OP.

 

[dmccarty]

The local reps in PA (especially the more rural areas) are very good with constiuent service...which is why I suggested talking to his ASAP. He can find out if the PA Right to Farm act would apply in his case before consulting a lawyer.
It wouldn't cause a political stink in this area...not for the information he needs.

To make sure we are on the same page local means county or town representatives.

The OP sounds like he has a problem with a town official. If this was in the nearest town to me, the town council is split politically and the division is very nasty. The county is no different. If the OP got the mayor to address the situation, the other side would accuse the mayor of being corrupt. In my case, the mayor is corrupt. The games the Mayor and his minions just played over a permitting issue were unreal. The LAST thing one would want to do locally is get a local elected official involved. It can quickly turn into a political football and the validity of the issue at hand would be moot.

The OP has received a legal notice. He needs to move quickly to figure out if he SHOULD have been pulling permits. I would HOPE that simply mowing and cleaning up would not require a plan and a permit. The real question is the legal validity of the notice. The politician may or may not know. If I asked one of the local representatives about an environmental issue I would not trust I received the correct legal answer.

The lawyer should have my best interests in mind. The politician? Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, the politician's answer may very well be wrong even with good intentions. They only way I would know is to see a lawyer and read up the law myself. I double check what the lawyer tells me to make sure I agree with their opinion.

Over the years we have easily talked to a half dozen to a dozen lawyers over the years looking for advice. Not once did we get a bill and we asked for a bill. The advice we were given was certainly worth paying.

Later,
Dan

 

[Tollster]

I once saw a video of a holland farmer fill his S h i t spreader, then drive it to the court house and engage the PTO on the building. It was a classic last stand. I looked online but could not find it. He did recieve a fine, but gained world recoginiton on his plight!