Gas with Ethanol in Small engines.....Do not run engine dry for storage.

[brin]

I just took a lawn mower in for repair to the mower shop that has been here for at least 50 yrs. and I mentioned to the owner that I ran all my small engines dry before storing for any length of time due to the ethanol in the gas...He has been repairing small engines for over 40 yrs. and he grabbed a carburetor he had on the shelf and showed it to me ...it was all pitted and ugly..he said " Do not run them dry....go ahead and leave gasoline in them but with an additive.." He said the carb he was showing me came of a piece of equipment that had been stored dry...with no gas at all...For what it's worth.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sounds like H% condensation in the bowl. Residual alc would certainly favor it. I like to run then dry on premix. Varnish finally happens even with additives if you leave stuf in the carb and wait too long. Plus whats in there wont burn. I once had a lawn mower stored on partial tank with no gas shutoff. Wouldnt start on fresh so I drained and rinsed the bowl. Started right up and ran well, but I didnt use it right away. Next day it wouldnt start. The fresh gas had dissolved the remaining bowl varnish leaving a mix that took a torch to light where it drained onto concrete. Once I got more fresh gas into the carb and then used it it essentially fixed itself.
larry

 

[clemsonfor]

Do what ever you wish. Draining carbs i think also increases the "gas crystals" that form in the bowl i think. These are like sand and will plug your jets easy. My theory is that there is always a bit of fuel if you just run them dry(not talking about bowl drain empting) there is always a bit of fuel in them, which crystalizes that day or next as it dries. With fuel in it there is less of a drying factor.

Here is a new one. i filled the mower at the farm about 2 months prior, rebuilt the card (key to the story) that trip. Then last weekend returned. Mower cranked up fine then shut off after 1 sec or so. Keppt cranking, tapped the bowl nothing, would start with fuel poured in throat of carb. Knew it was not getting fuel. The gas that was in there was E10 about 1/10 of a gallon from last time. It was so nasty smelling it smelled like it was years old (was in the sun) anyway i pulled the carb. Just as i thought the inlet needle was seized in the void it rides in. I pulled it out with my fingers. It had green algae stuff all around the needle holding it closed in place. I had no compressed air or carb cleaner there, so i rubbed the stuff off and put a tiny screw driver inthe area to try and scrape it off. I then let fresh fuel i added flow though the inlet for 10 secs or so to wash it clean. Reassembled and it fired right up, and wife cut with it for an hour or so fine.

Reason i mentioned i rebuilt it was that the bowl gasket and the drain plug weeped fuel and over a few days would drain the small amount i left in the tank each time. Thus i guess not haveing any effect but the fuel crystals in the bowl. This time fuel stayed in the tank for several months without stabilizer and it went bad. And i have no idea how algae grows in gas? Maybe the moisture the ethonol it soaked up and the gas evaporated leaving just high water content in the carb? This then condensed in the top part around the needle?

I dunno, i will now put stabil or seafoam in the fuel that i leave in the tank. This trip i also got 93 octane 100% gas (before i knew of this problem) to run in it.

 

[Stihlrunner]

Best part of the story right there!

 

[creekbend]

Thanks for posting. BTW, did the mower shop recommend any certain additive?

 

[Dr Dave]

Always store with a full tank of fuel, no ethenal and use stabil, or sea foam, there is no way to get all fuel out without removing carb and tank. If you do empty all fuel out and not protect the carb with a lube, the aluminun carb will oxidize from air and moisture. Metal fuel tanks will rust also.
How do I know? I maintain about 60 generators, drained, run dry and stored inside and about 35 gas engines on equiptment left outside with fuel in it. The engines stored dry are always having problems, leaking carb gaskets, plugged jets, rusty fuel tanks etc. But you cant fix stuppid, upper management knows better:laughing:

Dave

 

[brin]

Always store with a full tank of fuel, no ethenal and use stabil, or sea foam, there is no way to get all fuel out without removing carb and tank. If you do empty all fuel out and not protect the carb with a lube, the aluminun carb will oxidize from air and moisture. Metal fuel tanks will rust also.
How do I know? I maintain about 60 generators, drained, run dry and stored inside and about 35 gas engines on equiptment left outside with fuel in it. The engines stored dry are always having problems, leaking carb gaskets, plugged jets, rusty fuel tanks etc. But you cant fix stuppid, upper management knows better:laughing:

Dave

Creekbend and all...DrDave is right....I should have posted more but got hurried this AM ...these are the additives suggested and he did say to leave the tank full...prevents condensation and as DrDave mentioned the carb the man showed me was all pitted and gross looking and he said it was from the customer leaving the mower empty...

 

[California]

Does Stabil leave a coating?

I have a shredder that is run only a couple of days each spring so I'm concerned about long term storage. I use Stabil in the gasoline I buy for it, and also run it dry before storage.

I wonder if using 50:1 2-cycle fuel with Stabil for the last fill before storage - either drained or left in the tank - would leave a protective coating.


Off topic - I had an early (1300cc) Datsun pickup where rebuilding the carb didn't help. The thing barely ran. Its carb casting had become porous from corrosion like described above. I had to get a nasty junkyard carb core and rebuild up from that before the thing ran correctly.

 

[brin]

Does Stabil leave a coating?

I have a shredder that is run only a couple of days each spring so I'm concerned about long term storage. I use Stabil in the gasoline I buy for it, and also run it dry before storage.

I wonder if using 50:1 2-cycle fuel with Stabil for the last fill before winter storage - either drained or left in the tank - would leave a protective coating.

I am a believer in leaving the tank full of gas with an additive..Stabil or something after seeing that carburetor this AM....I mean, he did not try to sell me anything...I was taking a mower into him...he has been doing this for 40 or more years...he was trying help me prevent damage is the way I took it...apparently you think you are leaving it empty but not really and that crystallize and pits your carb etc. and ruins it.

 

[s219]

Shoot, between me and my father we've been running outboard motors and other seasonal equipment dry for nearly 70 years, before and after ethanol came along. Never saw a carb problem due to that. But I have rebuilt plenty of carbs for friends who left ethanol gas in their equipment over winter. I think I'll stick to running equipment dry at the end of the season.

 

[murphy1244]

Shoot, between me and my father we've been running outboard motors and other seasonal equipment dry for nearly 70 years, before and after ethanol came along. Never saw a carb problem due to that. But I have rebuilt plenty of carbs for friends who left ethanol gas in their equipment over winter. I think I'll stick to running equipment dry at the end of the season.

I agree, I've always ran my 2 and 4 stroke small engines dry. But I do use Seafoam in my mix.

 

[clemsonfor]

i dont have any singe carb outboards anymore. If you pull the fuel line on a multi carb engine you will be running one carb dry before the others, all the time. These fuels not getting fuel are not getting oil on a 2 stroke, i dont do this. I had a stuck inlet needle on a 2 cyl c carb omc this summer. I been doing it this way and just letting the fuel evaporate in the bowl, there was barely any goo in the bowl, and i had not been into those carbs in 4 years or so.

 

[DEWFPO]

I've never run an engine dry before storage and always store with a full fuel tank. Additive or not, I've had no problems with some of these engines starting after even 2 or 3 years dormant. Just lucky I guess. Yes, we have plenty of E10 here. Can't find straight gasoline anywhere for 200 miles.

DEWFPO

 

[murphy1244]

I've never run an engine dry before storage and always store with a full fuel tank. Additive or not, I've had no problems with some of these engines starting after even 2 or 3 years dormant. Just lucky I guess. Yes, we have plenty of E10 here. Can't find straight gasoline anywhere for 200 miles.

DEWFPO

I left a motorcycle with a full tank and stabil for 2 years and it came out like cokacola. Never do that again.

 

[clemsonfor]

Some are lucky, for themost part i have been, but i have also built more small carbs than ever in the last few years. They never are right again it seems. They always dont idle quite right or like to flutter etc. Yea im sure there not compleatly clean but when you had a hard plastic unadjuatable float and fixed jets its hard to mess up the rebuild.

Some may not know it but when you use stihl and Husky oil to mix with it contains the addative in it. I have always wondered why my saw gas seems fine even after a winter or summer or so! Boat gas i have been lucky with as well, even without stabil in it or seafoam. Knock on wood.

As for a boat, you cant leave the carbs full, they dry out eventually! They are siphon feed from your fuel pump, motor off, tank sits lower than motor so there is no way they stay full like a lawnmower carb will. They have some leak out or evap off and it will jsut fill as the float falls.

 

[arrow]

Our motorcycles always have problems with storing wet and have used all the additives from Stabil to Seafoam. If you do not start up intermittently, (which I always forget to do) the gas in the float bowl dries up and leaves varnish residue that easily clogs jets. The manufacturer of Robin Suburu engine that is in my generator recommends gas shut off valve to off position and float bowl emptying in their manual if it will not be started on a weekly basis. I would love to get hold of some but there is no ethanol free gas available in my state. I have no problems when running to dry. This ethanol is savage stuff to stationary engine carbs.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I have ruined two carburetors by storing them with ethanol-containing gas in them. I run all my gas engines dry if they are going to sit for any extent of time.

 

[VA MTN MAN]

Shoot, between me and my father we've been running outboard motors and other seasonal equipment dry for nearly 70 years, before and after ethanol came along. Never saw a carb problem due to that. But I have rebuilt plenty of carbs for friends who left ethanol gas in their equipment over winter. I think I'll stick to running equipment dry at the end of the season.

Me too. i dont think the carb shown was do to being left dry. If running carb dry was that big of a problem look at all the motors that are tested at the factory then set on shelves waiting to be sold. outboard motors,generators mowers etc. most any you buy have had gas in them and they all start. I might start having trouble by running dry but it has worked well for the last 50 years so until then I will keep em dry.

 

[bucktaker]

i think the key here is no ethanol gas in small engines, I lost all the plastic lines in my stihl chain saw even though I always leave it full and treated with stabil. Now I search for no ethanol gas for my equipment. Does anyone know if the higher grades of unleaded have ethanol?

 

[clemsonfor]

They do if the pump states 10% on it, unless they have a sticker on the 93 octane or whatever it is that says "does not contain ethonol". Most that have this will advertise it somewhere. Some in my area have it others dont. I also can get no-ethonol 87 octane at certain stations.