.40S&W vrs .45ACP

[patrick_g]

I have had a Colt Gold Cup National Match for a long time. It is a fine .45 auto but my daily carry is a "baby" Glock in .45ACP. In a non-LEO role, if you don't get it done with the first few rounds you probably won't need more. Large mag capacity is way oversold in non military/non LEO use except for convenience at the range if you are too rabid to slow down and reload. I agree that either round in question will git 'er done. I have a .40 as well but... as noted above, I carry a .45. Good defensive ammo in .45 will do anything you reasonably need done. There may be but I have never seen credible evidence that the .45 won't do anything a .40 will and often more so. Both rounds can exceed the requirement, the .45 can exceed it by a wider margin.

Pat

 

[LetsRoll]

I am sorry to hear that. If you window shop locally then order from Buds, eventually your local shop won't be around any more.

If you find a good shop that has what you want and provides good customer service, please patronize them and keep them in business!

Ken

Ken...well I got great news to report. I'll give you a high lighted version cause I've got a date with a wheel gun.:cool2:

Back in 2002-2003, me and the wife had our house built and one of the sub-contractors that did work on our house, became good friends. Well years passed and the last that I heard from him and his wife. He was doing construction work on his own (didn't work for a general contractor no more). I just found out, that he no longer does construction work (tired of chasing down folks that own him money for working on there home) and that he runs a gun shop in town.

Let me back up some. Before I found him and his gun shop. I started asking around about what is a good weapon for CCW. Got some good idea's and some "not so good". Well, I ended up buying a Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum Revolver with a 2 1/4in barrel (too long of a story to tell :hyper. I know, I said I didn't want a revolver, but that's water under the bridge. After buying the revolver, I started hunting for a instructor that gave CCW classes and that's how I found him and his gun shop. We hit it off really good and have the same idea's about what a customer wants. I just signed up for his CCW class, plus I'm over joyed about taking his class.

I will not be taking the revolver to his CCW class cause I still need to train myself how to shot it. My pattern is not that tight as of yet. Actually, I'm all over the target. :ashamed: Just can not shot a tight group just yet, but I'm getting some what better. The .357 magnum recoil, a 2 1/4in barrel and the long trigger pull, plus a short grip (will be replacing the grip soon), this was not "out of the case gun" for me. I don't have any experience shooting revolvers, so I need somewhat "allot" of training and practice. And that is what is making this gun FUN to shot. Plus my military training is not helping that much when it comes to shooting this revolver. As for the Springfield XD .45, at 25 yards, I'm not going to brag, but the term "Game Over" comes to mind.

Ok, I'm off of here, got a box of 38 special and three boxes of .357 magnum rounds to shot. :thumbsup:

This is not my picture, just one that I got of the internet (wikipedia). You can see how short the barrel is and how short the grip is.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Sp101corbon.JPG

 

[Teikas Dad]

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth....

I've been an LEO for over 37 years. Started out with a .357 magnum revolver, department eventually went to 9mm semi-autos. After 19 years left that department and went to another one which issued 9mm Glock model 17 semi-autos. I fell in love with Glocks, I was always a die hard S&W fan but the Glock is the only handgun I will purchase or carry now. We upgraded to Glock Model 22 semi-autos in .40 cal about 15 years ago. I hate the .40 caliber. It's really snappy to shoot so it's not enjoyable. I have a Glock model 19 9mm for off duty use but recently I wanted to upgrade to a .45 caliber Glock. I wanted something that if God forbid I had to use it, would be more effective than the 9mm which some departments have found to be wanting and I didn't want a .40. I took a look, a hard look, at the Model 30, Model 30SF and Model 36. Then I discovered the .45GAP (not GAP as in the store that sold Monica the blue dress, GAP as in Glock Auto Pistol). Several years ago Glock worked with Speer and developed the .45GAP round. Ballistically the GAP is identical to the .45ACP - I know....this is heresy to .45ACP/1911 lovers, sorry... The length of the loaded round is about the same as a .40 cal. This allows the use of the medium size (Models 17, 22, 19, 23, 26, 27) Glock frames with a .45 caliber round. The .45ACP Glocks are much wider than the models listed above and can be a little tougher to conceal. There are GAP haters out there who will chime in that the .45GAP is the answer to a question that nobody asked, Glock wanted a round named after him, yadda-yadda. Sig named a round after them, Colt has several rounds named after them, Smith & Wesson has several rounds named after them so that's a BS argument. The purpose of the .45GAP was to put a .45 caliber size cartridge in a 9mm/.40cal size frame - that's it.

The New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, South Carolina Highway Patrol, Georgia State Patrol and Florida Highway Patrol all issue the Glock 37/.45GAP to their officers. Florida did some very extensive research and testing when they picked the GAP over the ACP.

My model 38 .45GAP shoots much softer than the Glock .40 pistols. It's more of a push back in the hand rather than a snappy muzzle climb. The GAP's recoil is a little bit more than the 9mm, but not by much.

The downside? Yes there are downsides. Magazine capacity is less, they are single stack not double stack so you're not going to see 15 round magazines unless you go aftermarket. Ammo may be tough to find in your local gun store, but it's all over the place on the internet usually within 50 cents a box of .45ACP. I reload my own practice ammo so it's not an issue for me. For reloaders, the GAP uses small pistol primers (cheaper than large pistol primers), use .45ACP reloading dies and the same bullets that are used to reload .45ACP ammo. The cases are not cut down ACP cases, they are thicker at the base than the ACP to handle the higher pressures of the GAP round. I bought a thousand once fired cases for $60 off the internet so I've got enough to keep me busy for a little while.

If you are in one of the states where your state police are carrying the GAP you'll probably have better luck finding ammo in your local stores.

It may not be the answer to your question, but it's another option.

 

[k0ua]

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth....

I've been an LEO for over 37 years. Started out with a .357 magnum revolver, department eventually went to 9mm semi-autos. After 19 years left that department and went to another one which issued 9mm Glock model 17 semi-autos. I fell in love with Glocks, I was always a die hard S&W fan but the Glock is the only handgun I will purchase or carry now. We upgraded to Glock Model 22 semi-autos in .40 cal about 15 years ago. I hate the .40 caliber. It's really snappy to shoot so it's not enjoyable. I have a Glock model 19 9mm for off duty use but recently I wanted to upgrade to a .45 caliber Glock. I wanted something that if God forbid I had to use it, would be more effective than the 9mm which some departments have found to be wanting and I didn't want a .40. I took a look, a hard look, at the Model 30, Model 30SF and Model 36. Then I discovered the .45GAP (not GAP as in the store that sold Monica the blue dress, GAP as in Glock Auto Pistol). Several years ago Glock worked with Speer and developed the .45GAP round. Ballistically the GAP is identical to the .45ACP - I know....this is heresy to .45ACP/1911 lovers, sorry... The length of the loaded round is about the same as a .40 cal. This allows the use of the medium size (Models 17, 22, 19, 23, 26, 27) Glock frames with a .45 caliber round. The .45ACP Glocks are much wider than the models listed above and can be a little tougher to conceal. There are GAP haters out there who will chime in that the .45GAP is the answer to a question that nobody asked, Glock wanted a round named after him, yadda-yadda. Sig named a round after them, Colt has several rounds named after them, Smith & Wesson has several rounds named after them so that's a BS argument. The purpose of the .45GAP was to put a .45 caliber size cartridge in a 9mm/.40cal size frame - that's it.

The New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, South Carolina Highway Patrol, Georgia State Patrol and Florida Highway Patrol all issue the Glock 37/.45GAP to their officers. Florida did some very extensive research and testing when they picked the GAP over the ACP.

My model 38 .45GAP shoots much softer than the Glock .40 pistols. It's more of a push back in the hand rather than a snappy muzzle climb. The GAP's recoil is a little bit more than the 9mm, but not by much.

The downside? Yes there are downsides. Magazine capacity is less, they are single stack not double stack so you're not going to see 15 round magazines unless you go aftermarket. Ammo may be tough to find in your local gun store, but it's all over the place on the internet usually within 50 cents a box of .45ACP. I reload my own practice ammo so it's not an issue for me. For reloaders, the GAP uses small pistol primers (cheaper than large pistol primers), use .45ACP reloading dies and the same bullets that are used to reload .45ACP ammo. The cases are not cut down ACP cases, they are thicker at the base than the ACP to handle the higher pressures of the GAP round. I bought a thousand once fired cases for $60 off the internet so I've got enough to keep me busy for a little while.

If you are in one of the states where your state police are carrying the GAP you'll probably have better luck finding ammo in your local stores.

It may not be the answer to your question, but it's another option.

Everything you say is true of course. I have shot the .45GAP a little, a LEO friend had one, and it is pretty much the twin of the .45acp. BUT, I just feel that although it made a fair splash in the pond when it was introduced, that it has become almost an orphan. I just think in a few years you might have quite a bit of trouble getting ammo for it.. sure as a re-loader, you are in pretty good shape, but for the average guy, it could be problematic. But it is an alternative. Now I have a nice .40 cal.. an SV 2011 custom competition pistol for USPSA Limited Division. It's recoil is not snappy of course it is a heavy double stack 1911 variant. I have always fed it a diet of 180 grainers. It is very pleasant to shoot, but of course we are talking about two totally different pistols for two totally different purposes. By the way, Welcome to the forum:welcome:

James K0UA

 

[LetsRoll]

I reload my own practice ammo so it's not an issue for me. For reloaders, the GAP uses small pistol primers (cheaper than large pistol primers), use .45ACP reloading dies and the same bullets that are used to reload .45ACP ammo. The cases are not cut down ACP cases, they are thicker at the base than the ACP to handle the higher pressures of the GAP round. I bought a thousand once fired cases for $60 off the internet so I've got enough to keep me busy for a little while.

Do you have any advise for reloading my own casings? Right now, I'm going to buy factory load's for my .45 but I'd like to play around with the .357 rounds (ie: make lighter loads). I haven't got a clue on what to buy for reloading (ie: presses, die's and scales and so on). I've read on the internet about kits that you can buy to get started, but I'd like to buy first time around cause there are so many opinions about what one would need to get started. Any advise would be appreciated or a push in the right direction.

 

[Ken45101]

It's usually best to start off slow with reloading, with a single stage press. Later if you reload larger volumes a progressive press speeds things up. A turret press is in between those two.

I suggest that you start out by reading a few good reloading books. Usually Lyman's Reloading Manual and/or "Reloading" by Richard Lee. You can get them from Midwayusa.com or other sources.

You will need a press, dies for the caliber you plan to reload, a scale (I just use a balance beam scale), a micrometer, a couple of good reloading books, some way to clean the dirty brass, some powder, primers, and of course bullets. There's probably some other things that I'm not thinking of but the above books will help you figure those out.

RCBS and Hornady make great single stage presses, Lee makes a few models that aren't as sturdy but a lot of people are happy with.

The problem with a progessive press is that you have too many things going simultaneously when you first get started. Later, it's not as much of an issue.

Your best bet is to find someone near you who can help you get started.

Ken

 

[Ken45101]

Oh, I might add that the consensus is that reloading doesn't save you any money, it just lets you shoot more for the same amount of money. I like it because it gives me an indoor gun hobby when the weather is such that I can't be out shooting (rain, snow, dark.....)

Ken

 

[sscrob]

Ive got a Rcbs rockchucker kit , it is a single stage press so it's slower. I usually load in the winter when there's nothing else going on anyway so it's not a big deal. I would pop for the Rcbs charge master scale, I don't know how I ever did with out mine. Midway USA and midsouth shooters supply is where I get most of my stuff. Midway USA has reviews on their items so you can compare things.

 

[k0ua]

Do you have any advise for reloading my own casings? Right now, I'm going to buy factory load's for my .45 but I'd like to play around with the .357 rounds (ie: make lighter loads). I haven't got a clue on what to buy for reloading (ie: presses, die's and scales and so on). I've read on the internet about kits that you can buy to get started, but I'd like to buy first time around cause there are so many opinions about what one would need to get started. Any advise would be appreciated or a push in the right direction.

Well now. Just like guns or tractors or pickup trucks...oh boy.. best reloading tools... I have owned many. I prefer Dillon Precision. If you will only want to reload pistol rounds. then a Square Deal B will suffice.. If you will ever want to reload rifle rounds. then get a 550 (its what I have) In my opinion The Dillon is the best. They are progressive presses for high output and good quality. I would also buy the Dillon carbide dies for pistol rounds. You will not be sorry. I remember so many years ago going into a local store and asking about reloading tools and stating "I want to save some money by reloading"..The older gentleman at the counter just laughed and said "son you can shoot more by reloading, by you ain't gonna save any money".. no truer words were ever spoken. The number of rounds The wife and I expended rose dramatically, but we never saved any money. Good luck in your reloading endeavers, and if want more info.. I have been there and done that.

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

James K0UA

 

[TripleR]

My adventures in reloading lead me to agree with Ken45101, married and in college I started out with a Bair single stage and the minimum equipment required. I used it for many years and upgraded when I could afford it. Even with the simple setup I still managed to mess up some cases, slugs, reversed primers etc. Progressives were not available then, but would have boggled my mind.

I now have a couple of old progressives no longer made and a Rock Chucker, power trimmer, case tumbler etc. which makes reloading easier if not easy. My setup is not particularly fast but fast enough for me.

Dillon has a good reputation, but I have no experience with them. I am tempted from time to time to get one then buy a tractor or something else which knocks that in the head.

Completely agree on not saving money, I have probably 8000+ different bullets, 5000+ primers and cases right now and no matter where you buy that stuff ain't "cheap".