B 26 backhoe running slower and slower

[nspec]

Yeah, I realize why they said what they said. But I also stated in my post that in my experience, the SUDT, which is synthetic, also handles the heat better than UDT. The benefits of synthetic are seen in BOTH extreme heat & extreme cold. I run synthetic in all of my equipment and vehicles, and have operated them from -30* to 108* F.

I also mentioned that the UDT seems to overheat, as evidenced by the smell and the decrease in performance, whereas the SUDT doesn't seem to overheat or lose performance.

SUDT is most definitely NOT synthetic. This has been discussed numerous times over many years.

 

[number two]

Isn't the new SUDT2 finally a synthetic?It's all our local dealer has had in stock since last year.Which has bandit67 been using?

 

[Deano]

Isn't the new SUDT2 finally a synthetic?It's all our local dealer has had in stock since last year.Which has bandit67 been using?

Would love to know with certainty. I am trying to find where I read that it has "synthetic properties".....whatever that means!
Not that it matters to me. I will continue using it either way!:confused2:

 

[nspec]

They are very vague - purposely. The label states "superior synthetic performance", but it does not say that it is a synthetic oil anywhere. In fact, if you look up the MSDS for the product, it is labeled as a petroleum distillate product and makes no reference anywhere to synthetic formulas or properties.

 

[J_J]

My backhoe seems to be getting slower and slower and also lacking the power it had when I got it. The filters were changed at 50 hours and now it has about 220. Anyone have this problem and what did you do to fix it. I am going to go get some hydraulic filters tomorrow and change them to see if that helps. The hydrastatic drive works as it should and also the FEL seems to work OK, just the backhoe seems to be slow and it seems that when the oil gets hot, it works even slower. Relief valve may be in need of adjustment on the hoe but I dont know if there is a separate one for it from the FEL or not.

I think a flow meter and pressure test is in order to reaffirm the tractors hyd's is putting out the specified flow and pressure.

If the tractor hyd is working correctly, then there is something giving you the perception that the BH is slower than new .

If the BH valve is rated for the tractor flow, maybe the relief valve is not set right. It should be the same as tractor or FEL relief valve.

BH hyd components may just be worn, causing a loss of speed and power.



Is engine rpm up to max or recommend speed for BH operation.

If you install a hyd gage where you can see it while operating the BH, it will help you trouble shoot and analyze the hyd system.

 

[don white]

I also had a problem with the backhoe speed on my B26. My problem was only with one control stick.
The sticks each control two valves and have one pivot point. This pivot point is bolted to the top of one of the valves. Metric but around a 10/32 size.
My problem was one bolt broke and the other loosened up. Because it happened slowly I did not notice that I had a lot of play in the stick. Eventually I was not able to open the valves all the way and it appeared that the backhoe was slowing. But only on one control stick.
I got real lucky and was able to back out the broken screw without removing the whole valve. Real lucky. I was grinning big time.

 

[bandit67]

Isn't the new SUDT2 finally a synthetic?It's all our local dealer has had in stock since last year.Which has bandit67 been using?

Sorry, I forgot there are now 3 different versions - UDT, SUDT, SUDT2.

It's the SUDT2 I've been using. It says on the jug "Superior Synthetic Performance". That tells me that it is a synthetic - they are not allowed to claim synthetic or synthetic performance if it is not synthetic. If they claimed "synthetic-like performance", then maybe I'd believe it was not synthetic. The fact that they label the oil as being "Superior Synthetic Performance" leads me to believe that they are claiming the SUDT2, as a synthetic, performs better than non-synthetic oil.

The only caveat to the SUDT2 could be that it MAY be a Group 3 synthetic base stock, which is a severly hydrocracked regular oil that can be called synthetic due to the hydrocracking and sythetic additives. I prefer true synthetic Group 4 or 5 base stocks, but in hydro oils, it seems even more difficult to find those.

So, I believe the SUDT2 is what is considered to be a synthetic, AND, personal experience has shown me that it is superior to UDT in overall performance, and does quiet down the HST significantly.

I'm going to do a bit more research to see what more I can find out about SUDT2, and also see if I can find any Group 4 or 5 base stock Hydro oils out there before I get to my 50 hour service.

 

[nspec]

Bandit,

Not to get too off topic, and sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but... I have a B2630 and when I read that you made the switch to Super with the 3030 (same machine) it got my attention. I've been thinking I'd make the switch to Super myself just to see if it made a difference in the hydro whine. In the big scheme of things it's really not that much money, so I figured what the heck. Just curious if you noticed a difference in your hydro noise when you switched?

 

[bandit67]

So, I believe the SUDT2 is what is considered to be a synthetic, AND, personal experience has shown me that it is superior to UDT in overall performance, and does quiet down the HST significantly.

Yes - see above.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Well I have only 220 hours on the way to the 400 hours oil change. May give the synthetic a shot if I can find it. May have to use something other than SUDT2 if dealer doesnt carry it.
Still havent had a chance to check out the working of it since I changed the filters

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think a flow meter and pressure test is in order to reaffirm the tractors hyd's is putting out the specified flow and pressure.

If the tractor hyd is working correctly, then there is something giving you the perception that the BH is slower than new .

If the BH valve is rated for the tractor flow, maybe the relief valve is not set right. It should be the same as tractor or FEL relief valve.

BH hyd components may just be worn, causing a loss of speed and power.



Is engine rpm up to max or recommend speed for BH operation.

If you install a hyd gage where you can see it while operating the BH, it will help you trouble shoot and analyze the hyd system.

With only 220 hours on the meter on the commercial quality B26 I dont think anything would be worn out at this stage. I will check the controls to make sure the nuts on the toggles havent loosened off. That happened on my Yanmar FEL joystick once and I had to tighten all of them up to make the valve work. I will do that tomorrow weather permitting and while in the control panel look for a separate RV for the backhoe.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I bought my pressure gauge on line at BXpanded.com. They will send you the one for your tractor, and show you were to hook it up, and tell what shims to use which come with.

Gonna check out that website and see what they have for the B26.

 

[bandit67]

Here's what I've found so far:


Typical Properties: Super UDT2 Fluid

Gravity, degree API: 34.5
Viscosity @ -40* C, cP: 16000
Viscosity @ 100* C, cSt: 8.1
Viscosity @ 40* C, cSt: 37
Viscosity Index: 199
Pour Point, *C max: -42
Zinc, % wt.: 0.1122


AMSOIL Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil (ATH)

SAE Viscosity: 5W-30
Brookfield Viscosity (ASTM D 2983) @ -40*C: 19243
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100*C, cSt (ASTM D 445): 9.8
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40*C, cSt (ASTM D 445): 53.7
Viscosity Index (ASTM D 2270): 170
Pour Point *C (*F) (ASTM D 97): -50 (-58)

Most of the viscosity numbers are better for the Amsoil, but the SUDT2 has a fairly significantly better Viscosity Index, which is extremely important to determine quality of oil throughout the full temperature range during use. Tough to know which oil is better, but I don't plan on using anything other than SUDT2 during the warranty period.

Gary, I brought up the SUDT2 issue in case you can't figure out what is hampering performance after exhausting all the other options, then you may want to try making the change to the SUDT2 and see if that fixes the issue. If you haven't been using it, I am pretty confident that you are losing performance, based on what I've seen switching from UDT to SUDT2. It's not a cheap try, but if it works, it'll definitely be worth the expense, and from what I can determine, the SUDT2 is one of the best fluids available. Good luck.

 

[woody]

Gary, sorry about taking so long but I just got back to the thread. the relief is behind the right rear wheel.

 

[wdchyd]

With only 220 hours on the meter on the commercial quality B26 I dont think anything would be worn out at this stage. I will check the controls to make sure the nuts on the toggles havent loosened off. That happened on my Yanmar FEL joystick once and I had to tighten all of them up to make the valve work. I will do that tomorrow weather permitting and while in the control panel look for a separate RV for the backhoe.

Gary, Did they actually check your tractor with a guage set or flow/load meter..??

If they didn't, then it would be like hiring an electrician without a volt/ohm/amp meter......yes/no..??

testing it with the proper test equipment would only rule out any pump troubles (which hopefully you don't have) and help find proper RV settings.......which only takes minutes to test

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary, sorry about taking so long but I just got back to the thread. the relief is behind the right rear wheel.

Does this mean you have to remove the tire to get to the relief valve?

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary, Did they actually check your tractor with a guage set or flow/load meter..??

If they didn't, then it would be like hiring an electrician without a volt/ohm/amp meter......yes/no..??

testing it with the proper test equipment would only rule out any pump troubles (which hopefully you don't have) and help find proper RV settings.......which only takes minutes to test

They only checked it for function and said it looked like everything was working correctly. Took it to their rock pile and dug for an hour and said it didnt seem slow. Total waist of time and money especially since I specifically asked for a pressure check on the RV. Big dealer too and thats the kind of service one gets.They not only got 2 hours of labor for nothing done but also got another chunk of money from me for filters for B26 and RTV900 + about 4 gallons of SUDT oil.

 

[wdchyd]

They only checked it for function and said it looked like everything was working correctly. Took it to their rock pile and dug for an hour and said it didnt seem slow. Total waist of time and money especially since I specifically asked for a pressure check on the RV. Big dealer too and thats the kind of service one gets.They not only got 2 hours of labor for nothing done but also got another chunk of money from me for filters for B26 and RTV900 + about 4 gallons of SUDT oil.

I just don't get it....if they are in the tractor business then they should have the necessary tools to diagnose a hyd system.....I get equipment owners all the time that just want a diagnosis and some are too cheap to pay for my time to setup the flow-meter, but in this case it's the exact opposite.....here you are a paying customer with no answers.....:thumbdown:

Funny how an independent repair shop would get lamb-basted if he passed on the same results, but the company with the big signs get the "Well, They have overhead".....

(Sorry for the rant)

Here's how I would determine if the hyd system was putting out properly

Kubota Flow/Load Meter Test - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More

 

[wdchyd]

FWIW Gary, I'd do it for you free if you were nearby....

 

[Carl Bert]

FWIW Gary, I'd do it for you free if you were nearby....

Hey wdchyd, what would be a fair price for that test?