Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders

[TripleR]

What dictatorships are you referring to in Europe?

The Second Amendment argument regarding a "well regulated militia" is NRA baloney. We have a well regulated militia called the National Guard. The idea that unorganized citizens are going to stop tyranny is absurd and certainly has never been needed as our government has been solidly democratic for three hundred years with no need for an extra poorly regulated NRA militia. Besides, have any of you ever checked the wording of the Second Amendment to see who is the designated commander in chief of the "well regulated militia"?

Many keep ignoring the 2nd Amendment is not the only thing guaranteeing the right to bear arms as many states including mine contain such recognition of rights absent any reference to a militia: "Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

 

[daugen]

I know of no gun owner who will accept the Australian "solution" including me and just the thought of going against the law makes me sick.

if their shoe doesn't fit our foot, then we still need to find one that does. What do they give the hunters in Australia? water pistols? Has to be exceptions for proven need, but then
those registered owners surely wind up on some form of registry, or face prosecution if unregistered guns are found. Dimed out by your tree hugging neighbor who thinks he is doing you a good thing on the
anonymous hot line...

Most of us were taught respect for the law and we've seen what happens when that respect breaks down. Kent State is a vivid memory for me. But so is being a volunteer fireman and having many police as friends
just due to association and showing up at the same emergencies together. We were all in it for the community's good. And look what happens now. Some psychopath guns down two firemen and wounds more, with a note to the
effect of I want to take as many people with me as possible". When you are first in, you just never know what you are going to find. Back when I was a fireman, no one shot at us. Not a good development for sure.
Shows this is just not an inner city thing, but right out here where we live.

No wonder the Europeans think we are all trigger happy cowboys. Is Europe more civilized as a result? Have all their centuries, millenia of war with each other taught
them how to be peaceful? Stay tuned.

 

[TripleR]

if their shoe doesn't fit our foot, then we still need to find one that does. What do they give the hunters in Australia? water pistols? Has to be exceptions for proven need, but then
those registered owners surely wind up on some form of registry, or face prosecution if unregistered guns are found. Dimed out by your tree hugging neighbor who thinks he is doing you a good thing on the
anonymous hot line...

Most of us were taught respect for the law and we've seen what happens when that respect breaks down. Kent State is a vivid memory for me. But so is being a volunteer fireman and having many police as friends
just due to association and showing up at the same emergencies together. We were all in it for the community's good. And look what happens now. Some psychopath guns down two firemen and wounds more, with a note to the
effect of I want to take as many people with me as possible". When you are first in, you just never know what you are going to find. Back when I was a fireman, no one shot at us. Not a good development for sure.
Shows this is just not an inner city thing, but right out here where we live.

No wonder the Europeans think we are all trigger happy cowboys. Is Europe more civilized as a result? Have all their centuries, millenia of war with each other taught
them how to be peaceful? Stay tuned.

I'm not sure I get the point of your post. You mention hunting, but none of the research I have done mentions hunting in connection with the US or our State Constitution. I am also uncomfortable with the phrases " do they give" and "proven need" which sound inconsistent with a constitutionally guaranteed "right".

I too worked with and around First Responders for over thirty-two years and one of my sons is now one of them while another was a Police Officer and EMT.

Honestly I don't care what Europe thinks of us.

My reply may not be point on to your post as I may be totally misreading it and if so I apologize; seems I've had to do that a lot lately.

 

[MF1433V]

...They were reasonably concerned at the time that the English would try to reestablish control and as there was no standing national army to speak of it was prudent to insure a militia on the model of minuteman militias should remain armed. Three hundred years of experience says we are no longer worried about King George.

If you think this was the only thought in drafting the amendment you must not think much of the founding fathers. Try reading up on Thomas Jefferson and you will get a better idea of the full intention. It was a well thought out amendment to ensure Freedom against any government, including your own, should it try to infringe on the rights the constitution guarantees. The constitution is intended to protect individual rights from Government that is too controlling.

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

 

[IslandTractor]

I think it goes beyond this....
When you can get the away from the criminals fully and without any end then and only then should you take away the honest mans guns.....

Not saying all guns should be removed..just the rapid fire types need to be better controlled as in Australia.

 

[AchingBack]

When Island hears the letters NRA, his eyes glaze over and his ears close down.. so you have to cut him some slack there.

Same way I feel when I hear the letters AMA. Although I'm certain Doc IslandTractor is one of the more responsible prescription pad owners.

 

[IslandTractor]

******, Lenin, Stalin.

Gun registration (restrictions) always turns into confiscation and imprisonment historically.

You think our Second Amendment would have prevented those?? How?

****** was elected and legitimate head of the government. The Second Amendment says the CIC is the Head of the militia in our constitution so the "militia" in pre war Germany would have reported to ****** ( just like the Brown Shirts did....oh wait, the Brown Shirts were a well regulated militia used by ****** to accomplish his goals).

Lenin...revolutionary, not likely to have been controlled by a militia unless the militia was working for the czar who was hardly a proponent of democracy. So Lenin doesn't really count as he overthrew a tyrant himself.

Stalin. Yep, a true tyrant. But I cannot imagine how a militia would have stood up to him. His secret police were so effective at killing leaders of any resistance group that the militia wouldn't have come close to organizing an effective response.

Today in the USA a militia would, as the US Navy used to say about the Cold War Russian Navy, "have a short but exciting life" in the event of hostilities. How would you like to go one on one with your AR15 against a Predator or AC130 or M1A1??? Would your high capacity magazine help defend you against cluster munitions or napalm? How are you going to organize your militia while the boys at Ft Meade monitor every communication? The militia may well have been a viable counter force in colonial times given it had virtually the same weapons as a standing professional army but that is clearly no longer the case. I would much rather depend on the First rather than the Second amendment to preserve our democracy. And, guess what, it works!

 

[TripleR]

Not saying all guns should be removed..just the rapid fire types need to be better controlled as in Australia.

There are a lot of reasons I wouldn't live in Australia and it is not an irrational fear of kangaroos.

I also just found this; seems they are not content to stop with "assault weapons". AUSTRALIA

 

[IslandTractor]

Gun registration (restrictions) always turns into confiscation and imprisonment historically.

Lots of political prisoners in Canada, Australia, NZ, UK, Norway, Sweden, Germany, etc etc???

 

[MF1433V]

You think our Second Amendment would have prevented those?? How?

****** was elected and legitimate head of the government. The Second Amendment says the CIC is the Head of the militia in our constitution so the "militia" in pre war Germany would have reported to ****** ( just like the Brown Shirts did....oh wait, the Brown Shirts were a well regulated militia used by ****** to accomplish his goals).

Lenin...revolutionary, not likely to have been controlled by a militia unless the militia was working for the czar who was hardly a proponent of democracy. So Lenin doesn't really count as he overthrew a tyrant himself.

Stalin. Yep, a true tyrant. But I cannot imagine how a militia would have stood up to him. His secret police were so effective at killing leaders of any resistance group that the militia wouldn't have come close to organizing an effective response.

Today in the USA a militia would, as the US Navy used to say about the Cold War Russian Navy, "have a short but exciting life" in the event of hostilities. How would you like to go one on one with your AR15 against a Predator or AC130 or M1A1??? Would your high capacity magazine help defend you against cluster munitions or napalm? How are you going to organize your militia while the boys at Ft Meade monitor every communication? The militia may well have been a viable counter force in colonial times given it had virtually the same weapons as a standing professional army but that is clearly no longer the case. I would much rather depend on the First rather than the Second amendment to preserve our democracy. And, guess what, it works!

One more quote that I think is attributed to Jefferson

"The people will not understand the importance of the Second Amendment until it is too late."