Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns?

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   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #111  
Don't blame the gun, blame the shooter

In this case I blame the shooter and the GUN OWNER. The mother knew someone within mental issues could possibly have access to her weapons. They should have been stored at the range or locked up in a gun SAFE. She got the death penalty for her mistake.

The problem with guns are not the rightful owner generally, it is that they can fall in the wrong hands. IMO guns should locked in a gun safe when not in use.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns?
  • Thread Starter
#112  
In this case I blame the shooter and the GUN OWNER. The mother knew someone within mental issues could possibly have access to her weapons. They should have been stored at the range or locked up in a gun SAFE. She got the death penalty for her mistake.

The problem with guns are not the rightful owner generally, it is that they can fall in the wrong hands. IMO guns should locked in a gun safe when not in use.

If a gun is for defense of you Family and Home, what good is it going to do you in a safe at 2 AM in the morning when a criminal is breaking into your home? Ken Sweet
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #113  
In this case I blame the shooter and the GUN OWNER. The mother knew someone within mental issues could possibly have access to her weapons. They should have been stored at the range or locked up in a gun SAFE. She got the death penalty for her mistake.

The problem with guns are not the rightful owner generally, it is that they can fall in the wrong hands. IMO guns should locked in a gun safe when not in use.

yelbike, we don't know if the guns were locked up or not. I agree with you she should have kept them locked up, or even if she knew here son was "mental" she should have considered not having any on the premises. But we don't know that they weren't in a safe or locked cabinet.. We know he killed her and took her keys and her car and her guns.. There has not been any reports of what the police found in the house that I have seen. The real danger in the house was not the guns, the real danger in the house was her son.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #114  
.......
First, you seems to be under the impression that this is a frivolous folly (your beloved 2nd amendment). Rather, most of us see the second amendment, on studying history, as a central tenet, and just as important as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. In our view, our governmental structure and constitution would be worthless without these critical rights (if we can't speak out freely against our government or protect ourselves from a tyrannical government or make our own choices about religion and association, then there is not realy life, liberty and pursuit of happiness). It should be noted that these "rights" do have costs and can be subject to abuse and misuse, but they are "foundational" for us and without them the whole house of cards topples (over time). It should also be noted that, to play on your words, nowhere else in the civilized (or uncivilized) world do citizens have the level of individual and collective freedom and opportunity as they have in the US. Indeed, the few countries that offer freedom approaching ours can generally thank US intervention at some point or another. So, it isn't a simple matter, but a core belief... we put freedom above the cost of freedom.

Now, I will be among the first to say that I see growing challenges to our culture and form of government. To succeed, it absolutely requires personal responsibility and accountability on behalf of every citizen. As our country becomes more reliant on the government than on self, family, and neighbors (accountability and responsibility to and among each other), we are losing some of the glue that hold our system together. I pray that we haven't crossed a "tipping point" where we can't reclaim what we had, but with 30+% of citizens receiving some level of govt assistance and our current and growing nat'l debt and apparent lack of will to make tough decisions to change those facts, I'm not confident. Once gov't protection becomes more important than individual and collective freedom to a majority, then things will have to change and, I suspect, core foundational rights will be among them (if the govt takes care of us, we have no more "right" to the means to protect ourselves and each other, we have no more "right" to speak out against the govt we asked for, etc.).

That said, the changes will not likely be easy. First, there are many to whom these freedoms and ideals are still very, very important. In my opinion this is the polarization we're seeing accelerate in the US - the shift from personal freedom, achievement, and opportunity to govt assistance and protection is approaching a point where there are fewer and fewer "fence sitters", and those that are on the "old school" side of the fence feel a responsibility to their family, friends, and neighbors (and their predecessors) to protect foundational rights (even if that means taking up the arms which they can have under 2A).

... it's that they are just as much a part of the fabric of our lives as trucks, tractors, boats, fishing poles, whatever you consider part of your history and being.

I'll close by saying I'm not a "gun nut", just a pretty typical southerner. I don't own any military-style guns (90% of what I own are sporting shotguns) but I don't begrudge those who do. I respect their right to own and use them, for as long as they do so legally and responsibly they aren't any more dangerous than I am with my shotguns or you are with the axe you use to split firewood.

Just giving this post a bump - because hchxoom really did a nice job articulating what many of us feel.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #115  
yelbike, we don't know if the guns were locked up or not. I agree with you she should have kept them locked up, or even if she knew here son was "mental" she should have considered not having any on the premises. But we don't know that they weren't in a safe or locked cabinet.. We know he killed her and took her keys and her car and her guns.. There has not been any reports of what the police found in the house that I have seen. The real danger in the house was not the guns, the real danger in the house was her son.

He got the guns, so it remains he had access to them. He shot her in the face while she was sleeping. Agreed we do not know all the facts. I say the real danger was that the son had access to the guns.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #116  
Just giving this post a bump - because hchxoom really did a nice job articulating what many of us feel.

Agreed, my feelings exactly. I just can't put it into words as well.


Quote Originally Posted by hchxoom View Post
.......
First, you seems to be under the impression that this is a frivolous folly (your beloved 2nd amendment). Rather, most of us see the second amendment, on studying history, as a central tenet, and just as important as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. In our view, our governmental structure and constitution would be worthless without these critical rights (if we can't speak out freely against our government or protect ourselves from a tyrannical government or make our own choices about religion and association, then there is not realy life, liberty and pursuit of happiness). It should be noted that these "rights" do have costs and can be subject to abuse and misuse, but they are "foundational" for us and without them the whole house of cards topples (over time). It should also be noted that, to play on your words, nowhere else in the civilized (or uncivilized) world do citizens have the level of individual and collective freedom and opportunity as they have in the US. Indeed, the few countries that offer freedom approaching ours can generally thank US intervention at some point or another. So, it isn't a simple matter, but a core belief... we put freedom above the cost of freedom.

Now, I will be among the first to say that I see growing challenges to our culture and form of government. To succeed, it absolutely requires personal responsibility and accountability on behalf of every citizen. As our country becomes more reliant on the government than on self, family, and neighbors (accountability and responsibility to and among each other), we are losing some of the glue that hold our system together. I pray that we haven't crossed a "tipping point" where we can't reclaim what we had, but with 30+% of citizens receiving some level of govt assistance and our current and growing nat'l debt and apparent lack of will to make tough decisions to change those facts, I'm not confident. Once gov't protection becomes more important than individual and collective freedom to a majority, then things will have to change and, I suspect, core foundational rights will be among them (if the govt takes care of us, we have no more "right" to the means to protect ourselves and each other, we have no more "right" to speak out against the govt we asked for, etc.).

That said, the changes will not likely be easy. First, there are many to whom these freedoms and ideals are still very, very important. In my opinion this is the polarization we're seeing accelerate in the US - the shift from personal freedom, achievement, and opportunity to govt assistance and protection is approaching a point where there are fewer and fewer "fence sitters", and those that are on the "old school" side of the fence feel a responsibility to their family, friends, and neighbors (and their predecessors) to protect foundational rights (even if that means taking up the arms which they can have under 2A).

... it's that they are just as much a part of the fabric of our lives as trucks, tractors, boats, fishing poles, whatever you consider part of your history and being.

I'll close by saying I'm not a "gun nut", just a pretty typical southerner. I don't own any military-style guns (90% of what I own are sporting shotguns) but I don't begrudge those who do. I respect their right to own and use them, for as long as they do so legally and responsibly they aren't any more dangerous than I am with my shotguns or you are with the axe you use to split firewood.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns?
  • Thread Starter
#117  
He got the guns, so it remains he had access to them. He shot her in the face while she was sleeping. Agreed we do not know all the facts. I say the real danger was that the son had access to the guns.

When I was growing up in the fifties and sixties, the mentally ill were treated in facilities where they could not harm themselves or society. Is that not a option today? Ken Sweet
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #118  
If a gun is for defense of you Family and Home, what good is it going to do you in a safe at 2 AM in the morning when a criminal is breaking into your home? Ken Sweet

Well I guess if a gun is used for protection, it could be out, it is being used.

Ken, really are you worried about someone coming into your house at night. Really??? Move than. Come live beside me, I do not lose sleep feeling afraid of the boogyman coming into my house at night. I do not have a gun ready under my pillow either.
I think this I need protection thing is just an excuse.

Sorry for my rant. I do not mean to stir emotions on the subject. Just lock up your guns so some nut job does not get to it. I think that's the responsible thing to do.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns? #119  
When I was growing up in the fifties and sixties, the mentally ill were treated in facilities where they could not harm themselves or society. Is that not a option today? Ken Sweet

Just lock up your gun Ken. JMO.
 
   / Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns?
  • Thread Starter
#120  
Well I guess if a gun is use for protection, it could out, it is being used.

Ken, really are you worried about someone coming into your house at night. Really??? Move than. Come live beside me, I do not lose sleep feeling afraid of the boogyman coming into my house at night. I do not have a gun ready under my pillow either.
I think this I need protection thing is just an excuse.

Sorry for my rant. I do not mean to stir emotions on the subject. Just lock up your guns so some nut job does not get to it.

A big percentage of the younger generation around here are on meth and will do whatever it takes to support the habit. Just had a Baptist church broke into 2 weeks ago. I have never had a security problem, however, those "would be criminals" in the community know I will defend my home and my family and so they choose homes with docile owners to break into. Ken Sweet
 
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