Could a Aussie tell us how your Government confiscated your guns?

[devildog1]

IMO the "Feinstein" lunacy will never get further than it's introduction....it will never even come to a debate/vote in the senate let alone moving to the house...!

I hope your right pine but go to link and tell your reps that.
DevilDog

 

[sweettractors]

I think y'all ...all of you no matter what country you live in are missing the glaring point. Frequent mass killings of any kind are the symptom of a basic break down in our society. Just in my lifetime I can see a drastic change in the family unit. Knowingly or not we are going down a one way road and the consequences are irreversible. It sounds like a pessimistic point of view, but it is reality.

I hate to admit it, but I am embarrassed about what is on our mass media. Popular shows on TV are mostly about serial killers, rape, torture, kidnapping, etc....have you ever asked yourself why is this ENTERTAINMENT? It's not a question of religion, it's a question of what is right and what is wrong. The lines of black and white are gone...it's all grey and we are in trouble.........

"Ditto" Ken Sweet

 

[IslandTractor]

Really IT? Back in the late 60's how many movies did your family sit around and watch together that involved the kind of garbage that is every day/night now on multiple channels? If you don't think that has any effect on any developing mind your wrong.

I wasn't disagreeing that society has changed or that family life is not different. I was just saying that I don't think those things are central to the problem of these mass killings. It is the easy access to rapid fire weaponry in the hands of certifiable lunatics that seem to cause most of the damage. Add to that a few distraught employees and you have the current situation. I don't believe that crappy TV and movies cause severe mental illness. They might give crazies ideas for how to specifically carry out atrocities but they don't cause normal people to carry out atrocities. Perhaps that is a subtle difference to you but for me it is critical as it means we need to do a much better job of 1) identifying and caring for dangerous lunatics and 2) we need to take steps to make it very difficult for someone with a mental disorder or temporary crisis to quickly get a hold of powerful rapid fire high capacity weaponry. The first point there seems to be little disagreement about (until it is time to pay for it) but the second point has been contentious. In my opinion the second one is contentious not because anyone wants to make it easier for lunatics to get guns but because any steps taken to accomplish that goal are seen by NRA types as impinging on their gun rights. I think that making sportsmen jump through hoops is well worth the cost if it limits putting these devices in the hands of murderous nutcases.

 

[/pine]

I hope your right pine but go to link and tell your reps that.
DevilDog

Personally I think a savvy entrepreneur could make some money by selling plastic .223 cartridges with "Dianne Feinstein" etched into the simulated FMJ...(along with envelopes addressed to her senate mail box)

(remember you heard it here first) © 2013 /pine

 

[IslandTractor]

That Nancy Lanza's home storage protections were inadequate is obvious, but as yet, we dont know what they were. As such, we cannot reach a meaningful conclusion on the safety of home gun storage based on that one incident.
On storing such weapons at a range, I see several problems:
1. Such places are generally unoccupied while closed and are generally isolated which could make them an excellent target for thieves
2. Unless combined with a gun shop, there are not generally guns stored at ranges while they are closed and as such, most are not setup to safely store guns.
3. What would prevent someone from taking their gun out "to take to a gunsmith" and not bringing it back?
4. The amount of liability insurance needed to cover the possible loss of all the guns in the event of a fire or an organized burglary would be cost prohibitive

Aaron Z

Good points. All solvable.

1+2). Ranges would need to be more secure than they are currently. More expense, yes but necessary for the reasons you note. With various high tech security systems and perhaps even the requirement of 24/7/365 human security it should be possible. Might well require a big change in how that industry is organized. The Germans do something of this nature so it should be possible to learn from others what words and what doesn't. What do National Guard Armories do now? Whatever it is, if it is OK for M16s it should work for AR15s.
3) Not such a problem. Have people post a bond or just sign a legal document. Any law abiding citizen would comply. Those who don't get slapped with appropriate criminal charges. I would imagine a percent or so of guns might disappear this way but that would still be way less than what is happening today with both straw purchases and thefts from homes.
4) I actually wonder how expensive it would be per rifle. Figure not more than 1% would be stolen or burned up in a year nationally so that would mean an insurance fee of roughly 1% of a gun's worth added to whatever storage/usage fee the club would charge. Maybe less as I imagine the 1% figure is high.

 

[IslandTractor]

Everyone keeps posting what would possibly happen to the legal gun owner with a registered gun , Is every gun in your house legally registered to you and recorded with the feds ? have you never purchased a gun from a friend without paperwork ? Every gun owner has heard the stories of a friend with an automatic in his attic , and do you really think whatever new law they levy that every banned gun owner will just give them up ?

That sort of unofficial sale is something that needs to end. You cannot sell a car these days without recording the sale if you intend to put it on the road so there certainly is precedent. The person buying should be forced to go through whatever background check is used in retail gun shops. Same goes for these semi formal gun show events. It is nuts that we don't have a single standard for every gun purchase and sale.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I wasn't disagreeing that society has changed or that family life is not different. I was just saying that I don't think those things are central to the problem of these mass killings. It is the easy access to rapid fire weaponry in the hands of certifiable lunatics that seem to cause most of the damage. Add to that a few distraught employees and you have the current situation. I don't believe that crappy TV and movies cause severe mental illness. They might give crazies ideas for how to specifically carry out atrocities but they don't cause normal people to carry out atrocities. Perhaps that is a subtle difference to you but for me it is critical as it means we need to do a much better job of 1) identifying and caring for dangerous lunatics and 2) we need to take steps to make it very difficult for someone with a mental disorder or temporary crisis to quickly get a hold of powerful rapid fire high capacity weaponry. The first point there seems to be little disagreement about (until it is time to pay for it) but the second point has been contentious. In my opinion the second one is contentious not because anyone wants to make it easier for lunatics to get guns but because any steps taken to accomplish that goal are seen by NRA types as impinging on their gun rights. I think that making sportsmen jump through hoops is well worth the cost if it limits putting these devices in the hands of murderous nutcases.

These are not the type of people who would walk into a gun store and fill out the paperwork ,Lunatics and someone going postal would find it easier and less costly to buy from the black market /backstreet gangs / drug dealers ,any respectable gun dealer is already on the look out for the nuts ! your dancing around the fact that changing the way legal gun buyers get their weapons will not stop the lunatics from getting theirs ! go to any bar and you can find what your looking for ,I'm not talking about Applebees or the bar at Outback but the biker bars /topless bars and local hangouts , But even there your going to have to fit in the crowd or get tossed out the door in a hurry ! I can see it now the orange haired yuppie kid goes to a biker bar and wants to buy an ak 47 for cash and needs it fast ,Yeah they might take his money and send him down the street but he will never get the gun even from them .

 

[IslandTractor]

yes there are limits...
BUT the Miller decision held that there is a right to own and possess arms that are 妬n common use at the time?
This was referenced again in the Heller case.

I am pretty sure that you could say the AR-15 platform and large makes of handguns are in common use..

an AR-15 lower can be used with MULTIPLE upper receivers each with different calibers.....
since there approximately 2 million of them, I'd say 1% of the 200 million is common...

Interesting point. It could be used to deny any new type of weapon however as whatever you might consider "in common use at the time" that would not apply to a just introduced weapon. So if you go back to ?early 1970's when the AR15 was first sold, it would not have been in common use and therefore not covered by the Miller interpretation and therefore could not have been widely sold so would not have become even more common. Kind of a circular argument but I wonder how SCOTUS meant that to be interpreted.

 

[DT86]

Really IT? Back in the late 60's how many movies did your family sit around and watch together that involved the kind of garbage that is every day/night now on multiple channels? If you don't think that has any effect on any developing mind your wrong.

Growing up, in my teens and even twenties (26 now) I watch/watched TV and movies such as The A-Team (although nobody ever died they always shot "AT" people), The Boondock Saints (the first one came out at the same time as the Columbine massacre), HUNDREDS of Westerns, James Bond, ect and played the Call of Duty (war) video games, ect. I can HONESTLY say none of those have ever made me want to go on a killing spree.

I watched Bevis and Butthead too. I never terrorized the neighborhood or sat around picking my nose and watching music videos because of that.


These people are weak minded to begin with or something sure, but don't blame the movies.

 

[IslandTractor]

These are not the type of people who would walk into a gun store and fill out the paperwork ,Lunatics and someone going postal would find it easier and less costly to buy from the black market /backstreet gangs / drug dealers ,any respectable gun dealer is already on the look out for the nuts ! your dancing around the fact that changing the way legal gun buyers get their weapons will not stop the lunatics from getting theirs ! go to any bar and you can find what your looking for ,I'm not talking about Applebees or the bar at Outback but the biker bars /topless bars and local hangouts , But even there your going to have to fit in the crowd or get tossed out the door in a hurry ! I can see it now the orange haired yuppie kid goes to a biker bar and wants to buy an ak 47 for cash and needs it fast ,Yeah they might take his money and send him down the street but he will never get the gun even from them .

Except that in the last several incidents (CO, VA), the lunatic did in fact get the guns and ammo legally and from brick and mortar stores. Neither of those guys stole weapons or bought them on the grey market. Lanza stole his from his mother but that was different than what you described.

I don't doubt that criminals get many of their guns off the black market but they can and do also easily get them through straw purchases from legal gun shops.