Metal that will not arc

VirginiaAgent · Feb 25, 2013

So, a recent wind storm caused a metal rod type bird feeder holder to bend badly at the base. It's the kind that you buy at tractor supply, kind of a black metal, that I assumed was iron. I cut out the bend, cleaned the metal, and proceeded to weld it back together with my Stickweld 250. I could not get it to arc. I repositioned my negative clamp, changed rods, changed the welder's settings, everything I could think of. Nothing.

I was afraid something was wrong with my welder, so I grabbed a piece of scrap iron, and it arced immediately.

Are there types of metal that will not allow an arc?

I'm an amateur, so there may be a simple answer that I'm just missing.

CNC Dan · Feb 25, 2013

Did you grind the black stuff off?
Does a magnet stick to it?
Could it be anodized aluminum?

k0ua · Feb 25, 2013

Any kind of metal would draw an arc, even aluminum. Not saying it would weld, but it would arc.. the only reason for not drawing an arc, is because you had no continuity between your "ground clamp" and the rod and/or stinger. If the piece of metal has a piece of wood, or plastic in the middle of it between where the ground clamp was and where you tried to strike the arc, it wont arc, if it is made from several pieces of metal that was painted well in the joints it wont arc.. but if it has continuity it will arc. Get you Ohmmeter out and measure the resistance from where the ground clamp was to where you were trying to start your arc, and it will tell the tale.

James K0UA

CNC Dan · Feb 26, 2013

k0ua said:
Any kind of metal would draw an arc, even aluminum. Not saying it would weld, but it would arc.. the only reason for not drawing an arc, is because you had no continuity

James K0UA

Anodizing puts on a layer that is non conductive. Some layers are thicker than others, and very hard.

Mark @ Everlast · Feb 26, 2013

That would be plastic? lol. Just kidding. Hope you figure it out. Let us know.

k0ua · Feb 26, 2013

CNC Dan said:
Anodizing puts on a layer that is non conductive. Some layers are thicker than others, and very hard.

OK, or even a plastic coating of some kind or even a really good paint job of course. Anything that prevents electrical continuity. I nearly always have a wire wheel in one of my 4 1/2 inch angle grinders, and clean the path of the joint I am going to weld, Can't ever hurt, and often helps a bunch.

James K0UA

joshuabardwell · Feb 27, 2013

k0ua said:
OK, or even a plastic coating of some kind or even a really good paint job of course. Anything that prevents electrical continuity. I nearly always have a wire wheel in one of my 4 1/2 inch angle grinders, and clean the path of the joint I am going to weld, Can't ever hurt, and often helps a bunch.

James K0UA

Always grind clean the joint! And if you can, grind the ground clamp location too!

Redneck in training · Feb 27, 2013

Mark @ Everlast said:
That would be plastic? lol. Just kidding. Hope you figure it out. Let us know.

If it is plastic or wood you have to use rod made of the same material. In example to weld oak you have to use oak rod.

k0ua · Feb 27, 2013

Redneck in training said:
If it is plastic or wood you have to use rod made of the same material. In example to weld oak you have to use oak rod.

Yes, but we are talking about Oak filler rod here, as you must use an oxy-fuel process to weld Oak, not any of the electrical processes. Right?

Shield Arc · Feb 27, 2013

That reminds me of one time installing conveyors in a UPS facility. Two of us were welding side pans on this long run of conveyor. The side pans were painted green, and we were using 6010 running down hill to weld the sheet metal to the angle iron braces. The boss came by and started complaining about us burning up the paint, and how much more labor it was going to be to wire brush and repaint. My partner being somewhat of a smart a s s says, "well if you would have bought the right rod this wouldn't happen"! The boss asks what rod should he get. Partner says "well green rod of course"! Boss takes off to the welding supply to purchase green welding rod. Lets say he wasn't very happy when he came back.:laughing:

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 27, 2013

That's Brilliant!

Kinda like sending the newbie on the framing crew for the wood stretcher....Always find a couple guys a year that you can occupy for a few hours with that one.

I thought when welding wood it didn't have to be the same species (oak/oak etc) as long as you kept with hardwood/hardwood or softwood/softwood? I've had much success doing that. Some of the exotic woods can really make a nice detail of the joint.

Shield Arc · Feb 27, 2013

CDN Farm Boy said:
Kinda like sending the newbie on the framing crew for the wood stretcher....Always find a couple guys a year that you can occupy for a few hours with that one.

I remember my dad telling the story that one time he was running a fairly large project of carpenters. Had an apprentice that it was his first job. Crew sent him to town to buy a lumber stretcher. Kid gets in the job site pickup heads to town, gone all day, comes back just before quiting time. My dad is hot as he!! because the kid has been gone all day. Kid gets out of the truck with a big smile on his face, says I couldn't find one, but I'll go back tomorrow and look some more.

k0ua · Feb 27, 2013

Shield Arc said:
I remember my dad telling the story that one time he was running a fairly large project of carpenters. Had an apprentice that it was his first job. Crew sent him to town to buy a lumber stretcher. Kid gets in the job site pickup heads to town, gone all day, comes back just before quiting time. My dad is hot as he!! because the kid has been gone all day. Kid gets out of the truck with a big smile on his face, says I couldn't find one, but I'll go back tomorrow and look some more.

That kid wised up pretty fast didn't he?

Shield Arc · Feb 27, 2013

k0ua said:
That kid wised up pretty fast didn't he?

Yeah, he was one step ahead of the crew

. I remember my dad saying it was all he could do to keep from firing the whole crew over it.

cqaigy2 · Feb 27, 2013

Shield Arc said:
Yeah, he was one step ahead of the crew. I remember my dad saying it was all he could do to keep from firing the whole crew over it.

Ok, that's pretty funny.:laughing:

Shield Arc · Feb 28, 2013

I remember one time my dad telling the story. He was project superintendent building a sewer treatment plant. Had a crew down inside a concrete tank who were just getting started on assembling the machinery. Nothing was aligning up where the bolts fit. My dad was there looking at the machinery, seen a black kid who was a laborer not to far away cleaning up. He yelled over to him to go to the tool van and get a chain come-a-long, kid replied "sure"! Few minutes later my dad noticed the kid hadn't moved. My dad walked over to him and said either go get that come-a-long or go to the office and get your money! Kid gets that deer caught in the head lights look, and says "seriously there is a tool called a come-a-long"?

Redneck in training · Feb 28, 2013

When I attended a trade school the first day of classes the teacher asked students question to gauge what knowledge they had. It was clear that some had no clue about electricity not speaking about electronics. Then he asked one of those clueless to go to next class and ask for jar of electrons. When he returned back he told the teacher that the other teacher wanted to know if he needed the green or red one. Then he asked if he wanted the live or dead one etc. That poor kid was running forth and back not knowing that it was all a joke.

k0ua · Feb 28, 2013

Redneck in training said:
When I attended a trade school the first day of classes the teacher asked students question to gauge what knowledge they had. It was clear that some had no clue about electricity not speaking about electronics. Then he asked one of those clueless to go to next class and ask for jar of electrons. When he returned back he told the teacher that the other teacher wanted to know if he needed the green or red one. Then he asked if he wanted the live or dead one etc. That poor kid was running forth and back not knowing that it was all a joke.

In the telephone industry (which I am in) it was not uncommon to send a new hand back to the central office for a "can of dialtone"

Gary Fowler · Feb 28, 2013

Shield Arc said:
I remember one time my dad telling the story. He was project superintendent building a sewer treatment plant. Had a crew down inside a concrete tank who were just getting started on assembling the machinery. Nothing was aligning up where the bolts fit. My dad was there looking at the machinery, seen a black kid who was a laborer not to far away cleaning up. He yelled over to him to go to the tool van and get a chain come-a-long, kid replied "sure"! Few minutes later my dad noticed the kid hadn't moved. My dad walked over to him and said either go get that come-a-long or go to the office and get your money! Kid gets that deer caught in the head lights look, and says "seriously there is a tool called a come-a-long"?

We had a kid that had been sent out for Arc-oil, sky hooks and a few other non-existent objects so he was getting wary, so when someone asked him to go to the tool room and get a rose bud he refused saying he wasn't going to be fooled again. It took some explaining by several different folks to convince him he wasn't being messed with.
Another time a crew told this new kid that they were giving out turkeys for thanksgiving (my company never gave out anything) and told this kid to go to the project managers office to sign up. Well the project manager knew right away what was happening so he told the kid to put his name on a tablet he had on his desk. Well the day before Thanksgiving the project manager called the whole crew up to his office and presented the kid with his turkey. Then he told everyone that he was giving out turkeys to everyone who signed up but this man was the only one, so he congratulated him on getting his turkey. Man was those guys red faced especially when the project manager held them back and "had a little talk with them" about pranks.
I was working with another company once (NEPCO) and rumor was going around that everyone was going to get a turkey or ham for Christmas, you choice. Not to many folks believe that, so imagine the surprise when a refrigerated truck pulls up the day before Christmas loaded with turkeys and hams. Everyone got a turkey and a ham AND the rest of the day off with pay. The project manager played that one close to the vest and even upper management (which I was one of them) didn't know about that. Only him and the procurement manager knew what was going on and of course the President of the company who had to authorize the expenditure to buy 400 hams and 400 turkeys.

xtn · Feb 28, 2013

Worst I ever did was send a VW Bug owner to the parts store to get a new radiator cap for it. Told him it was a hard to find item, so he might have to hit a few different parts stores to find one.