Retirement savings ....Yikes !

[keegs]

I think automation, globalization and a commitment to quarterly earnings has defined a new order of winners and losers and as a result fueled allot of our inequality problems. Many of the manufacturing jobs that could sustain a middle class back in the sixties have either been automated or have gone offshore. The growing wealth disparity is as much a result of this as is any tax policy. That's not to say that we don't have issues with tax policy.

Many of my colleagues in IT are from South Asia, China/Taiwan, Eastern Europe. These jobs typically pay a comfortable living wage. I suppose a question we should be asking is why do corporations look outside the country to fill these jobs? Why don't more of us embrace careers that will sustain us?

I think raising wages on jobs that can't be easily offshored is probably a good idea. Carpenters, retail workers, hospitality workers even farm workers and food processors.... are the kind of jobs that aren't easily offshored. Why not raise the wages of these workers so as Dave mentioned, they can contribute more to society.

Investing in community colleges, a longer school day, better teaching standards... would not only increase the skills of our labor force and help to restore middle class wages but would also promote income mobility.

Growing up we were like most families with dad as the sole breadwinner. Today the norm is for a household to have two incomes. What happened to the value of all that additional labor?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Big depositors in Cyprus to lose far more than feared | Reuters

Sounds like they they are using a D9 Cat to do some leveling over there.

I am sure there are many details that I know nothing about but agree with others around the world the genie is out of the bottle on this bailout approach and that some lessor form will be used again and again by other governments. Putting money into the bank and they can take it. Buy GM stock and they can take it. Buy land and they can tax it away from you. As others have posted if you do not hold it and out of the sight of others you really do not own it.

 

[DABSGT]

Why not be reasonable and say a minimum wage of $12-$15/hour? What happens now is we pay people less than the cost of living, then supplement that with government aide programs and special tax treatments. That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Letting them go hungry and live in cardboard shacks will not improve our country. There are not enough high skill jobs to aspire to, and it is false logic to believe that everyone has the ability to do the work even if the jobs were available.

Raising the minimum wage is not as inflationary as some would have us believe. It creates customers with more to spend. It would allow reductions in tax financed support programs which we are paying the cost of already, plus the government overhead to administer them, plus the cheaters. One way or another, we are already paying the cost of a higher minimum wage, plus expenses.

If you want people tied to government programs, keep paying them low wages. If you want people to work for a living, pay them enough to make a living possible.

How often have you seen one of the minimum wage workers count change? Most minimum wage workers are minimum wage because the do nothing to better them self. Minimum wage is designed as entry level employment and as we did work hard and advance. You and I are close to the same age so if you are honest you will agree that it takes 2 or 3 to do the work of one worker when you and I were in high school and starting our first minimum wage job. Granted we didn't have cell phone stapled to our ear and didn't have to text some one every second. Some where along the line work ethic has taken a big down turn. I never felt that anyone owed me anything, started working at age 13 and 45 years later still working. Each of my children went to work when of age starting at minimum wage, oldest daughter still working minimum wage, will graduate college in May. Her minimum wage job gave her the incentive to make Deans list for her 4 years in college.

Also if anyone is going hungry and living in a cardboard box it it their choice as there are several GOVERNMENTAL programs to provide shelter and food.

As far as people being tied to government programs I believe that there should be some form of work tied to that check that would teach the individual self worth. If I didn't get out of bed every day I wouldn't have been paid and able to successfully raise my family. Just like most of us.

Sick, elderly people truly in need I believe we need to do all we can for them so don't get me wrong.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

 

[smstonypoint]

Excuse my language (economics), but I couldn't resist the temptation to comment on the topic of the minimum wage.

If you managed to stay awake in Econ 101, you may recall your professor using a supply and demand diagram to illustrate the deadweight loss to society when a price floor (e.g., a minimum wage) is imposed on a market.

If you were asleep or are hazy on the analysis, see Political Calculations: The Deadweight Loss of Minimum Wage Hikes for some back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Steve

 

[dave1949]

I think automation, globalization and a commitment to quarterly earnings has defined a new order of winners and losers and as a result fueled allot of our inequality problems. Many of the manufacturing jobs that could sustain a middle class back in the sixties have either been automated or have gone offshore. The growing wealth disparity is as much a result of this as is any tax policy. That's not to say that we don't have issues with tax policy.

Many of my colleagues in IT are from South Asia, China/Taiwan, Eastern Europe. These jobs typically pay a comfortable living wage. I suppose a question we should be asking is why do corporations look outside the country to fill these jobs? Why don't more of us embrace careers that will sustain us?

I think raising wages on jobs that can't be easily offshored is probably a good idea. Carpenters, retail workers, hospitality workers even farm workers and food processors.... are the kind of jobs that aren't easily offshored. Why not raise the wages of these workers so as Dave mentioned, they can contribute more to society.

Investing in community colleges, a longer school day, better teaching standards... would not only increase the skills of our labor force and help to restore middle class wages but would also promote income mobility.

Growing up we were like most families with dad as the sole breadwinner. Today the norm is for a household to have two incomes. What happened to the value of all that additional labor?

Those are good points. Back in 1997-2001 I managed a team of database specialists and programmers. Because of the Y2K issue sucking the talent pool dry, more than half of them were Indians on H1B visas. I don't think that is true now. US companies want to hire people that are cookie cutter fits to the current task, a huge overseas talent pool makes that possible. They ought to hire smart people who can grow with the company, but it is supposed they cannot afford that.

There was an article a while back about skilled jobs going unfilled. Some guy in WI couldn't understand why he couldn't fill CNC expert slots at a starting wage of $10/hr. No joke.

Some of value of that additional labor went into very large homes, two cars and labor saving devices in the home.

 

[MacLawn]

That video said since 1976 the ratio has gotten much worse! No kidding Sherlock! Look how much freedom and closer to socialism we have gotten since then. And, what is it with using this word "distribution"?? Huh? No way! To me, wealth is made by opportunity and hard work, not "distributing" money around! Another word I don't like being used regarding making a living - fairness. Again, huh? Freedom, opportunity, hard work - to me, that's the ticket, whether I get rich or not. One other thing I noticed in that video - yep, we're getting more like the communists states where there are PLENTY of rich people, just a very small percent in power. I wonder what that chart looks like in North Korea, China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc., etc.? Even in America, the states that have the most freedoms are the ones where income is more even. Look at New York, California, etc. - yep, again, the gap is wider in the most taxed, restricted states, in other words, the states most resembling socialism/communism.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Growing up we were like most families with dad as the sole breadwinner. Today the norm is for a household to have two incomes. What happened to the value of all that additional labor?

The additional family income for the most part bought 'stuff' that was not bought when it was just our dads brought home a pay check. Jyst our current payment to Verizon for connectivity today for one month is more than our TOTAL annual utility bills of all types for a year when growing up but did heat with wood. Just our electric last month was over $500 due to heating and hot water, etc. Vehicle, equipment and property insurance on all of our old stuff is still $5K every Feb. Kids braces were $5000 total and that was NOT even an expense option when I was a kid.

There is no need to have two working in a household today IF we would only make the same class of purchases today as families did 50 years ago. On the farm we worked a lot of 12+ hours day too.

 

[dave1949]

How often have you seen one of the minimum wage workers count change? Most minimum wage workers are minimum wage because the do nothing to better them self. Minimum wage is designed as entry level employment and as we did work hard and advance. You and I are close to the same age so if you are honest you will agree that it takes 2 or 3 to do the work of one worker when you and I were in high school and starting our first minimum wage job. Granted we didn't have cell phone stapled to our ear and didn't have to text some one every second. Some where along the line work ethic has taken a big down turn. I never felt that anyone owed me anything, started working at age 13 and 45 years later still working. Each of my children went to work when of age starting at minimum wage, oldest daughter still working minimum wage, will graduate college in May. Her minimum wage job gave her the incentive to make Deans list for her 4 years in college.

Also if anyone is going hungry and living in a cardboard box it it their choice as there are several GOVERNMENTAL programs to provide shelter and food.

As far as people being tied to government programs I believe that there should be some form of work tied to that check that would teach the individual self worth. If I didn't get out of bed every day I wouldn't have been paid and able to successfully raise my family. Just like most of us.

Sick, elderly people truly in need I believe we need to do all we can for them so don't get me wrong.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

A lot of people are working minimum wage jobs because there are hundreds who will show up to replace them if they need more than minimum wage. That is the pool of very needy people that exists in our country today. If people don't want to work, then why do hundreds show up for entry level job openings? Yes, they need to bring something to the table, but a good manager needs to understand who and what they are managing to be successful.

The fact that there are GOVERNMENTAL programs and not cardboard homes is exactly my point. I thought I explained it reasonably. We are paying for those support programs through taxes because people don't earn enough to live on.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Excuse my language (economics), but I couldn't resist the temptation to comment on the topic of the minimum wage.

If you managed to stay awake in Econ 101, you may recall your professor using a supply and demand diagram to illustrate the deadweight loss to society when a price floor (e.g., a minimum wage) is imposed on a market.

If you were asleep or are hazy on the analysis, see Political Calculations: The Deadweight Loss of Minimum Wage Hikes for some back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Steve

Steve thanks for at awesome link. I knew there were good reasons for not having high min wage but had forgotten why.

I agree with the fact just having any job at any wage can increase one's future earnings. My best staff and all management staff were working hard from age 10-14 even if they were not directly paid as did many of us did 50 years ago. I remember earning my first quarter at the age of six. I dropped tobacco plants ALL day long while the adults and older kids set the tobacco plants by hand with a wood peg.

 

[npalen]

The frustrating thing about long term investing for retirement is, as others have mentioned. the market swings. We scimp, save and do without material goods and services because we're trying to have something saved for retirement. I'm sure that many of you, as I, have seen market swings in one day that would have bought a brand new tractor with all the options and attachments. It takes discipline to stay the course.

Edit: punctuation