Retirement savings ....Yikes !

[ultrarunner]

The video assumes all folks want to be wealthy and that America is not fair to those that have little wealth.

Maybe it is growing up in the Bay Area that has skewed my perception... there are plenty of people I personally know that have no desire to be wealthy... or at least unwilling to put the effort forward to try.

There still are a lot of 1960's hippies living among the Redwoods that just want a simple existence... they, in fact shun materialism... just as many I know that live in Berkeley today.

There are also plenty that just want to have their smokes, their beer or puff marijuana.

Any full discourse on fairness would be incomplete if it didn't account for people that shun wealth.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

View attachment 310501

I have been somewhat concerned we were at a peak. Hope that is not the case but that graph does not make me feel any better.

Surely the stock market values are supported by rock solid values?

The last time the number of 1%'ers got trimmed per that graph my family as share croppers got trimmed in a bad way too. If the right side of the chart gets trimmed then guess what is going to run down hill to the left.

 

[Gator6x4]

Not sure the full agenda of the video.
nor was I and I hope the data is accurate, which sadly I don't doubt.
at least he wasn't promoting socialism.

and as far as taxes, until we get a balanced budget amendment, or maybe require it by a constitutional change,
our individual freedoms and financial security will always be at risk from governmental mismanagement.
How about a flat tax too. We need to simplify, not obscure through complexity. Pay a fair and understandable tax
and it will fund state and federal budgets that must balance. End of story. If only it were that simple.
But maybe it is...

We will see a flat tax when I can fly a 747 inverted through the eye of a needle blindfolded. A flat tax as it has been explained to me is simple, this is what I made, flat tax rate on this amount is, already deducted through payroll taxes was this amount, this is the amount I owe. None of the zillion or so deductions allowed that are currently claimed under the current tax code system.

 

[dave1949]

If all the deductions were done away with, which would only happen after the last lobbyist and idiot politician dies, and Gator6x4 flew through that needle :laughing:, we could still have a progressive tax. Payroll systems can easily calculate withholding tax rate bands on income. The only adjustment needed, for fairness, would be a year-end recalculation to check that the withheld amount was correct for the total annual income.

For example if someone is earning $20/hr, maybe the first $10 is tax free, then the next $5 is taxed at 10%, and the final $5 is taxed at 12%. Toss out all the dependent/child care/education/mortgage interest/business expense/depreciation/etc/etc deductions. People would start making more rational decisions. Can I afford a child? Will a new piece of equipment improve the bottom line? To a degree, these choices are now made figuring someone else is going to help pay for it. It would help put capital back to work too.

Government balancing of wealth distribution is the least efficient and least sensible method of achieving reasonable distribution. A higher minimum wage, and higher wages in general would be much better. The people who are already well off typically resist that while complaining about the government taking from them to give to someone who has less. Go figure. Sounds like they want more than their fair share to me.

People have to eat, have shelter, afford healthcare, etc. If we don't want more of our own defacto internal economic refugee camps (many densely populated urban areas already are), we need to wake up to reality and stop drinking Koch Bros. cool aid. A large population component of very needy people is what they want. People will cut each other's throats to work for nothing, and send their kids off to wars because that is the best "career" opportunity.

Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me.

 

[keegs]

If all the deductions were done away with, which would only happen after the last lobbyist and idiot politician dies, and Gator6x4 flew through that needle :laughing:, we could still have a progressive tax. Payroll systems can easily calculate withholding tax rate bands on income. The only adjustment needed, for fairness, would be a year-end recalculation to check that the withheld amount was correct for the total annual income.

For example if someone is earning $20/hr, maybe the first $10 is tax free, then the next $5 is taxed at 10%, and the final $5 is taxed at 12%. Toss out all the dependent/child care/education/mortgage interest/business expense/depreciation/etc/etc deductions. People would start making more rational decisions. Can I afford a child? Will a new piece of equipment improve the bottom line? To a degree, these choices are now made figuring someone else is going to help pay for it. It would help put capital back to work too.

Government balancing of wealth distribution is the least efficient and least sensible method of achieving reasonable distribution. A higher minimum wage, and higher wages in general would be much better. The people who are already well off typically resist that while complaining about the government taking from them to give to someone who has less. Go figure. Sounds like they want more than their fair share to me.

People have to eat, have shelter, afford healthcare, etc. If we don't want more of our own defacto internal economic refugee camps (many densely populated urban areas already are), we need to wake up to reality and stop drinking Koch Bros. cool aid. A large population component of very needy people is what they want. People will cut each other's throats to work for nothing, and send their kids off to wars because that is the best "career" opportunity.

Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me.

The Serenity Now - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dave1949]

Keegs, I am afraid it will take more than a mantra to cure me. :laughing:

 

[hosspuller]

Government balancing of wealth distribution is the least efficient and least sensible method of achieving reasonable distribution. A higher minimum wage, and higher wages in general would be much better. The people who are already well off typically resist that while complaining about the government taking from them to give to someone who has less. Go figure. Sounds like they want more than their fair share to me.

This bugs me too ... Minimum wage is opium for the low information voters. Obama says $9. Why not $900 per hour. It's simple. each employee has to produce enough value to pay for his wages plus the assets he uses and a profit for the employer. Any other device only makes for inflation and eliminates low skill jobs. Why does a high minimum wage eliminate jobs? Because the unskilled can't shovel enough dirt by hand to pay his $9 wage, taxes and benefits much less a profit for the employer. It takes a skilled hand on an $100,000 excavator to move enough dirt to pay.
Minimum wage laws only keep people on the liberal plantation.

 

[dave1949]

This bugs me too ... Minimum wage is opium for the low information voters. Obama says $9. Why not $900 per hour. It's simple. each employee has to produce enough value to pay for his wages plus the assets he uses and a profit for the employer. Any other device only makes for inflation and eliminates low skill jobs. Why does a high minimum wage eliminate jobs? Because the unskilled can't shovel enough dirt by hand to pay his $9 wage, taxes and benefits much less a profit for the employer. It takes a skilled hand on an $100,000 excavator to move enough dirt to pay.
Minimum wage laws only keep people on the liberal plantation.

Why not be reasonable and say a minimum wage of $12-$15/hour? What happens now is we pay people less than the cost of living, then supplement that with government aide programs and special tax treatments. That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Letting them go hungry and live in cardboard shacks will not improve our country. There are not enough high skill jobs to aspire to, and it is false logic to believe that everyone has the ability to do the work even if the jobs were available.

Raising the minimum wage is not as inflationary as some would have us believe. It creates customers with more to spend. It would allow reductions in tax financed support programs which we are paying the cost of already, plus the government overhead to administer them, plus the cheaters. One way or another, we are already paying the cost of a higher minimum wage, plus expenses.

If you want people tied to government programs, keep paying them low wages. If you want people to work for a living, pay them enough to make a living possible.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

While as a business owner I do not have anyone making min wage but if the increase would make me raise my prices it could put some jobs at risk that are semi stable today.

There are no good answers but in the end the greedy will go after the 1% and kill the goose that lays the golden eggs is my expectation based on history.

What blows my mind is sane looking people who think the playing field needs to be level do NOT understand if all wealth is spread equally around the world that in 50 to 100 years the spread would mirror what we see today.

Money will not stay were it is not respected and will look for a home where it is respected.

Most people desire to be poor based on their actions. The poor who decide they do not want to be poor start gaining wealth by respecting money there by attracting its attention. There are people making $1000 a week that are broke three days after every pay day. They have no plan to ever be wealthy as in owning a home and retiring before death.

 

[dave1949]

While as a business owner I do not have anyone making min wage but if the increase would make me raise my prices it could put some jobs at risk that are semi stable today.

There are no good answers but in the end the greedy will go after the 1% and kill the goose that lays the golden eggs is my expectation based on history.

What blows my mind is sane looking people who think the playing field needs to be level do NOT understand if all wealth is spread equally around the world that in 50 to 100 years the spread would mirror what we see today.

Money will not stay were it is not respected and will look for a home where it is respected.

Most people desire to be poor based on their actions. The poor who decide they do not want to be poor start gaining wealth by respecting money there by attracting its attention. There are people making $1000 a week that are broke three days after every pay day. They have no plan to ever be wealthy as in owning a home and retiring before death.

If a higher minimum wage were offset by reduced taxes (because those support programs are not needed), you have a net neutral outcome personally. Do I think the idiots in congress could pull that off? NO. But the math is reasonable, and placing more importance on the work ethic is what is needed. You do understand your taxes are currently making up the difference between a living wage and the minimum wage?

I'm sure there will always be those who don't manage their money, and no one is proposing a perfectly level playing field. Neither of those is a good reason to do what we are doing now.