The county trenched my creek-Cleaning up the aftermath.

[yeagisyeag]

Creekbend: It does dry up by mid summer, but flows pretty steady after rains, and in the spring from snow thaw. I see fish and crawfish in the deeper areas, one being upstream of a neighboring culvert. I did initially call it a ditch. It doesn't follow a straight line, and eventually feeds into Pymantuning Lake.

Aside from a creek being naturally made and a ditch being man-made, what are the differences? Not being a smarty pants here, just wondering if I'm missing an angle?

Jim

I can fully understand your concern with the piles of dirt and debris, but I have a question. I looked at all the pictures, before and after. That "Creek" looked like a drainage ditch that was, perhaps constructed in the past, to help with drainage issues. It didn't appear to be a free flowing Creek, at least in the pictures. Have you considered calling the County? Just my thoughts.

 

[yeagisyeag]

This week, I started tilling next to the creek, hoping to drag the loose stuff away with a back blade on the bigger tractor. The tilling went fine, except for finding rocks and logs, but the International won't stay running long enough to take it any further. I need to drain out both sides of the gas tank; There's a 1/4" line that's supposed to keep the fuel level equal on both sides, but it must be clogged with debris so it takes about 10 minutes after it runs out of gas for it to start back up again. I've blown the line out before, so next week I'll be taking the petcocks out of both sides to clear them.


We'll see how things go next week!
Thanks for your comments, and any suggestions.

Jim

 

[dave1949]

I guess I would wait until later in the summer to do that work, I am assuming it dries out then.

 

[jwstewar]

Boy, I wish the county would help me clean my creek out. Incidentally, we also initially called it a ditch. We were told it only had water in it when it rained. We've lived here now for 14 years, I have yet to see it dry. I've had it cleaned out 3 times - big bucks each time. The last 3 or 4 years I've done what I can with my little New Holland and FEL as the funds haven't been there to have it done again. One of these days I'll get a backhoe, but at the very least, I'm probably doing to have to rent a mini-ex later in the summer and clean it again as it is getting to the point the FEL isn't doing the job any more and going to start causing more problems if I don't do it right. When this does fill up, it will cause our yard to flood - including almost up to our leach bed and eventually over the county road. I've even tried that approach with the township and the county saying that if it was cleaned the road wouldn't flood and have to be closed. No dice so far.

 

[yeagisyeag]

Hey Jim,
I don't know how big your creek is, but I had some success using a 24" dirt scoop with my little B7100. It would fill just the bottom of the scoop before I lost traction, so it took an awful long time. I straddled the creek with the tractor, scooped, then drove off and dumped. Oh, and scoops are cheaper, that's why I have one, lol. I found it for $100 on craigslist.

Jim

 

[creekbend]

Creekbend: It does dry up by mid summer, but flows pretty steady after rains, and in the spring from snow thaw. I see fish and crawfish in the deeper areas, one being upstream of a neighboring culvert. I did initially call it a ditch. It doesn't follow a straight line, and eventually feeds into Pymantuning Lake.

Aside from a creek being naturally made and a ditch being man-made, what are the differences? Not being a smarty pants here, just wondering if I'm missing an angle?

Jim

The reason that I asked is if it is a drainage ditch and man made, the County has the right to maintain it and keep it clear of obstructions. If it is a natural flowing creek and not man made, I think that Federal statues apply. Correct me if I am mistaken. There are Federal laws that allow a landowner to take a certain amount of water from a free flowing natural creek, but not to dam up the water source to aid in obtaining the water in such instances as irrigating One's garden or crops. If memory serves me correctly, this provision dates by to President Thomas Jefferson's administration. There are also State and Federal laws pertaining to free flowing natural creeks or tributaries. Just a thought.

 

[creekbend]

The reason that I asked is if it is a drainage ditch and man made, the County has the right to maintain it and keep it clear of obstructions. If it is a natural flowing creek and not man made, I think that Federal statues apply. Correct me if I am mistaken. There are Federal laws that allow a landowner to take a certain amount of water from a free flowing natural creek, but not to dam up the water source to aid in obtaining the water in such instances as irrigating One's garden or crops. If memory serves me correctly, this provision dates by to President Thomas Jefferson's administration. There are also State and Federal laws pertaining to free flowing natural creeks or tributaries. Just a thought.

BTW, There is a lot of land in the United States where natural creeks form the property lines of landowners. We have a natural creek that divides our property line, on one side. The middle of the creek is the property line for both landowners. Can you understand the frustration when ONE property owner decided to widen or change the course of the creek? I sincerely hope that my posts explain my previous question and concerns.Thanks for listening.

 

[orezok]

If it's a natural creek, does it appear as a "blue line" on a USGS map. If so, it is considered "navigable waters of the United States" and is under the control of the Army Corps of Engineers and several other agencies. Yes, it can be a joke if it's dry 11 months of the year, but that's the statute. Modifying navigable waters without proper permits can result in 10's of thousands in fines and restitution costs.

I know this because when I worked for the school district as a construction manager, we cleared a small area of about 100 SF to install a storm drain outlet into a "blue line" stream.

The crazy part is that the "riparian" habitat was caused by drainage from an upstream housing project. The rest of the channel was dry 11 months a year.

 

[creekbend]

If it's a natural creek, does it appear as a "blue line" on a USGS map. If so, it is considered "navigable waters of the United States" and is under the control of the Army Corps of Engineers and several other agencies. Yes, it can be a joke if it's dry 11 months of the year, but that's the statute. Modifying navigable waters without proper permits can result in 10's of thousands in fines and restitution costs.

I know this because when I worked for the school district as a construction manager, we cleared a small area of about 100 SF to install a storm drain outlet into a "blue line" stream.

The crazy part is that the "riparian" habitat was caused by drainage from an upstream housing project. The rest of the channel was dry 11 months a year.

Exactly why I was attempting to provide some assistance regarding the matter. If anyone has the time, please inquire on the WEB, what the Lykes Brother's Corporation encountered in Florida relating to this same issue regarding natural Creeks and waterways. BTW, Lykes owns a considerable amount of land in the State of Florida and is very, very wealthy. Even their best Attorneys couldn't win the controversial case.

 

[RDrancher]

They did a pretty good job on the ditch, but the operator did you no favors by spreading out the excavated soil, grass and weeds. He changed the natural flow of the surrounding area and the organic, poorly drained material makes grading much more difficult...as I'm sure you've realized by now.

Leave it to a municipality to fail in an attempt to let water flow downhill.