Planting an orchard - what to do to improve the soil?

[Bikewanderer]

I am planning to start a fruit orchard, a medium sized one. It will be four rows, longest one about 150' and the shortest about 40'. This is for personal use, we intend to plant a few of about a dozen kinds of trees including apple, pear, apricot, cherry, etc. Most will be different variety of apple trees to get different mature dates. The total will be around 30 - 35 trees.

So, my soil consists of about 2' of topsoil with medium clay underneath it and hard packed clay at about 6'. I was considering taking a backhoe and removing about a 3' width in all the rows and filling with a topsoil/compost mix then filling back to grade and planting, then mulching the rows with grass in between. Rows are 16' on center, and my brush how is 10' wide, so I should be able to run right down the rows with it.

I am considering drip irrigation on a timer for water.

ANy feedback?

 

[dave1949]

If you are pulling a 10' bush hog, then your tractor is probably around 7' wide? (16-7)/2 = 4.5 feet from wheel to tree on each side. Is that going to be enough?

I think orchards are often planted on a grid to allow mowing in both directions.

 

[Bikewanderer]

I plan to maintain windrows of mulch with the trees to eliminate cross mowing.

http://heinzorchard.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/IMG_1299.245142844_std.jpg

Like that one.

Is 4.5 feet enough? I could make the rows wider.

 

[SPIKER]

I think you may be "Over Thinking" it. The trees should grow pretty good in your 2 feet of soil and clay underneath. You CAN if you wanted to drill (post hole digger) some holes thru the clay layer and fill with some sandy loam soil under the trees so the clay does not hold excess moisture on the roots. My place has 10~12" top soil 2' of clay and a layer of gravel 6~8" then clay & rubble and sandstone bedrock.

I planted a good number of fruit trees at my place and did so on a diagonal checker board pattern. You need to have them planted wide enough so you can mow up and down AFTER they are grown. I mow north south and east west getting each tree boxed. I generally mow north south one week and east west the next as going both ways at same time is not really needed. higher grass keep the dirt from drying out as fast. Also the primary wind (west or north west winds) should have a wind break effect to keep moisture in the trees. (Dont let wind blow DOWN the ROWS) unless you have too much moisture or low laying area that holds water.

Next tip, make sure you get only non grafted saplings. Grafted ones are OK but you will loose more to transplant and long term life is not all that good. I DID plant grafted stock as price at time was my biggest concern thinking back now it was a poor choice and have had some die off & some fatalities and non production issues. make sure to know where they were grown and what stock graft it has if possible a good nursery will know.

Not sure what you water needs will be as that is specific to location.

Mark

 

[dave1949]

Fruit trees in bloom are always easy to look at.

4.5 feet sounds tight to me, but I'm not an orchardist. Depending on the varieties, (dwarf, semi-dwarf, standard) you plan on using, there must be some guidelines on spacing.

If the track in the picture is 5 or 6 feet wide, then the rows are over 16' wide. Those trees look about the size of a semi-dwarf apple to me.

 

[Dingeryote]

Awfull shallow topsoil. Make sure to allow for drainage, considering the hard pack. Fruit trees don't like wet feet.

If you can, before you plant, get some organic matter worked into the clay/topsoil down a foot or so, in a band equal to the width of the dripline when the trees are mature. It beats Vertical mulching later.

Your trenching idea sounds good, but keep an eyeball on the Ph, as when things stabilize they often drop like a rock, rather than taper down.

Now would be a good time to make long term ammendments for soil Ph, to save on annual adjustments later. Sulphur ain't cheap to keep putting on every year. Your state Dept of Ag extension, or local Ag chem supply shop should be able to help all around.

We always had sandy Loam or low organic sand, when we were in the tree fruits, and I'm not up to speed on dealing with all that clay.

Water wise, 18mm 1-12" emitter buried dripline is the bomb, as it can be coiled 2-3 loops around the dripline inward, and still deliver more than enough during drought years. Just need 15psi at the emitters. Make sure to trench it in below tiller depth.

We went through half a dozen different controllers untill the local Orchard supply suggested running a plain old Rain bird four zone programmable.
As long as you are running a constant pressure well, the zone valve actuation is all that is required. Best part is the easy programming.
Double filters on the hoop, post pressure tank if your water is heavy on minerals, or run a 140 mesh and learn to swap and clean every week.

Make sure to add a Maezi injector as well. They save a lot of time and effort. Fertilization, chemigation, and running hydrochloric acid now and then to flush the driplines is a LOT easier with the injector. Best part is that they are cheap at around 150 bucks and can be figured into the filter hoop design real easy.

Good luck to ya, and make sure to post pics of the project as it progresses.

 

[flusher]

I am planning to start a fruit orchard, a medium sized one. It will be four rows, longest one about 150' and the shortest about 40'. This is for personal use, we intend to plant a few of about a dozen kinds of trees including apple, pear, apricot, cherry, etc. Most will be different variety of apple trees to get different mature dates. The total will be around 30 - 35 trees.

So, my soil consists of about 2' of topsoil with medium clay underneath it and hard packed clay at about 6'. I was considering taking a backhoe and removing about a 3' width in all the rows and filling with a topsoil/compost mix then filling back to grade and planting, then mulching the rows with grass in between. Rows are 16' on center, and my brush how is 10' wide, so I should be able to run right down the rows with it.

I am considering drip irrigation on a timer for water.

ANy feedback?

Around here in the North Sacramento Valley it's orchard country (olives, almonds, walnuts, pistachios, mandarin oranges, prune plums). My neighbor just put in about 8 acres of English walnut trees (grafted plants--CA black walnut root stock with English walnut scion). We have thin top soil (6-12 inches) and hardpan below. He ripped the soil parallel to the fence lines and also on the diagonals using a D8 CAT and dual shank ripper down to about 36". Then he ran the disc over the surface, fertilized, installed driplines and planted the saplings. He uses water from the local irrigation district (water comes from Shasta Lake via the Sacramento River and is pumped into the canals at the diversion dam on the river located south of Red Bluff, CA -- it's part of the Great Central Valley irrigation system).

This is the typical procedure around here. With your deep topsoil, I don't think you have to do much except auger a 24" wide x 36" deep hole, plant and backfill with whatever soil mix you prefer.

Good luck.

 

[dave1949]

I think it is the Guerney Bros. catalog that said "Don't put a $20 tree in a $5 hole." There may have been some inflation since then.

 

[Jstpssng]

Before doing anything, a simple soil test (+- $20.00) from your local Cooperative Extension is a cheap investment. As others have said, spacing will be dependent on root stock; standard trees are usually placed on a 20x30 foot spacing; these can live to be 100 years old or better; but take the longest to produce. On the other extreme some ladderlessdwarf varities are grown on trellises on an 8 fo

ot spacing, start producing in 2 years, and reach maximum production in 5.

For your purposes you would probably be happiest with a "semi-dwarf"... you can plant them on a 15 foot spacing (wider between rows if you want; but if I wouldnt plan my orchard around what I have for equipment... that mix can be changed. )

Here is an excellent explanation of rootstock; it also explains why all apple trees are grafted... I forget the term but the seed never reverta true to form. Cornell U is a clearinghouse of fruit and gardening information... :thumbsup:

 

[Jstpssng]

Gardening Resources, Cornell University Oh yeah, forgot to include my link.

 

[hslogger]

You might want to begin with a couple soil samples taken to your local ag product supplier. Different species do well of course in different soil types. Before you start ripping ground up for a full blown orchard investment, soil samples and some commercial advice should be considered.
Do you have a local USDA soils and water conservation district? It may be you will end up incorporating some amendments before tillage or during. It will save you a lot of headache down the road.

 

[Jstpssng]

I think it is the Guerney Bros. catalog that said "Don't put a $20 tree in a $5 hole." There may have been some inflation since then.

Oh, you mean my old landscaping boss plagiarized the statement?

 

[teejk]

Oh, you mean my old landscaping boss plagiarized the statement?

Inflation...used to be a lower ratio (like a $5 tree in a $1 hole). Bareroot stock 18" hole 12" deep is the rule I think. I always mixed peat moss into the fill soil to give the roots a chance to establish. Conventional wisdom was not to add fertilizer when planting (you want to encourage root growth before leaf growth) but I guess the growers now sell packs of slow release fertilizer that go in the hole. Other than that, I'll agree that crappy soil should not be a problem. Those roots will find a way to get water and food. If you bought semi-dwarf trees remember to keep the graft bud above the soil line otherwise I guess it will revert to a standard size tree. And finally, don't over water.

I want to try to grow some stuff in our new location (essentially a sand/gravel pit) but last night we had 6 deer and 18 rabbits at the bird feeders 10' from the patio door. So for me fencing would be step 1.

 

[RickB]

The importance of a soil test cannot be overstated. Get the soil tested and build your plan around the results.

 

[TomSeller]

.
Next tip, make sure you get only non grafted saplings. Grafted ones are OK but you will loose more to transplant and long term life is not all that good.

What do you mean by "non grafted saplings"? Plant rootstock and graft after planting? Or did you mean non stooled seedlings that would have a tap root?

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Don't know who is correct, but there is a school of thought that amending the soil in a hole under a tree creates a "container" for the root ball, which prevents the roots from fully expanding out. Counter-intuitive to what some say.

As others have said, soil test and consultation with the extersion service in your area just might save you a lot of headaches. You don't say where you are, but lots of universities have educational programs for the public.

 

[dave1949]

Oh, you mean my old landscaping boss plagiarized the statement?

Well, I don't know where it originated, but it does get the idea across. I guess the main thing about the hole is to not cram the roots into a small space, dig a roomy enough hole.

 

[Jstpssng]

Well, I don't know where it originated, but it does get the idea across. I guess the main thing about the hole is to not cram the roots into a small space, dig a roomy enough hole.

I meant that as a tongue-in-cheek comment, I don't think anyone can truly lay claim for the phrase.

Don't know who is correct, but there is a school of thought that amending the soil in a hole under a tree creates a "container" for the root ball, which prevents the roots from fully expanding out. Counter-intuitive to what some say.

As others have said, soil test and consultation with the extersion service in your area just might save you a lot of headaches. You don't say where you are, but lots of universities have educational programs for the public.

There is probably some truth to that... but at least a 20 dollar hole gives the tree a chance to get established and once it has a good root system it has the vigor to send roots into that unprepared soil. Generally an orchard is planted in an existing field; or in a newly stumped area. Either way the ground has been worked and loosened up at some point.


No word from the OP lately though... hopefully he found some suggestions valuable.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

There is probably some truth to that... but at least a 20 dollar hole gives the tree a chance to get established and once it has a good root system it has the vigor to send roots into that unprepared soil. Generally an orchard is planted in an existing field; or in a newly stumped area. Either way the ground has been worked and loosened up at some point.

Digging a $20 hole had always been "common sense" to me, until the county extension agent told me why our trees were doing poorly. I really don't know which theory is correct, and the county extension agent's theory may have more application in Oklahoma's clay soils.

 

[dave1949]

Digging a $20 hole had always been "common sense" to me, until the county extension agent told me why our trees were doing poorly. I really don't know which theory is correct, and the county extension agent's theory may have more application in Oklahoma's clay soils.

The OP did say he was going to dig a continuous trench for each row of trees. Somebody else said that was a good idea. So, the OP shouldn't really need to worry about the "container" effect if he trenches.

I have planted container-grown shrubs in "cheap" holes. Some never do extend their roots into the surrounding soil. One I remember well struggled for a couple years, got ugly as time went along, so I dug it up. The roots were a pathetic little misshapen clump. It actually started dying the day I planted it. :laughing: