Pricing per hour or per job?

[nitroxn]

I did a small job over the weekend. It was a french drain 42'-44' long 12 wide and 18" deep and scuffed up a yard for grass seed. I earned $200 dollars.The same customer called yesterday and asked for me to do another small job and I committed to be there as soon as my day job way done today. I arrived at 4:00 and went right to work finishing at 7;30. I dug out for a sidewalk around from his garage to the rear concrete deck, spreading the dirt in a low place in his yard. Also pulled some old concrete up that had been jack hammered but had wire in it. Basically just pulling it apart and scooping and piling it up for the city to pick up. I was paid another $120 dollars. More importantly my customer was pleased with the "amount of work and the lack of B.S." I did while on HIS clock. Those were his words. I truly feel no "full time" or professional worker doing this for a living would have fooled with a job this small. I am out to do a good job at a fair price targeting the do it yourself homeowner or in this case he was "flipping" the house. The 2 workers there putting up concrete forms right behind me asked for my number and indicated it was near impossible to find someone with the right equipment willing to do small jobs. That proved to me I am not taking food off someones table. From the time I read Steve's comment until that moment I wondered if I was doing the right thing by making an extra dollar. I believe I am and will continue to do so.


I am curious, what do some of you charge or pay for post holes? I have a 9" and a 12" auger.


Thanks for ALL the input


Curtis

 

[forgeblast]

If you found a nitch then make it yours. The word of mouth will get around and you will have more calls then you can handle. That will be a good thing.

 

[clemsonfor]

How far was this job that you just did? $120 is good money for 3 hours but just curious. Could you drive tractor there or did you have to haul on the trailer.

 

[LD1]

I always factor my drive in with the cost. It cost me. It dont matter weather you "say" you factor it or not, everyone does. It might not show as such on paper, but weather you charge a higher price, more per hour, or what, everyone has to cover the drive. Quite simply a 5 acre mow job 2 miles down the road cost me less to do than an identical job 30 miles away. Its only right to charge differently for the two jobs.

A minimum charge is also a big factor. You cannot bill $20 to someone for a half hour of work. It just aint worth hooking up the trailer for that.

I shoot for $50-$60 per hour with my L3400 with 6' cutter. It is pretty easy to estimate a cutting job over the phone. I get the address, use google planimeter to estimate acerage (usually while on the phone) and I know how many acres I can comfortably cut per hour. I usually ask when the last time it was done as well. As that will clue me in as to how big of saplings to expect. Anything that has been done within that last two years wont slow me down in my area. I am usualy within a half an hour on my guess. But I still dont charge per hour. I use this info for me only and quote a flat price.

And then there is the ocassional customer that wants a wide range of stuff done. Cutting, grading, moving a dirt pile, etc. I did a ob for a lady 2 years ago that wanted a 400' long drive graded, a rock pile moved, some shrubs pulled, and some other miscellaneous stuff. After I explained my equipment and what all I could bring in one trip, we decided it was best for her to just hire me for a full day as she had countless uses for me and a small tractor. I quoted her a flat $500 for a full day and told her that would buy 10-11 hours of my time. Knowing I probabaly couldnt get all done what she wanted, but could get the most of it, I just told her "you tell me what you want done next". And let her prioritize.

 

[nitroxn]

Clemsonfor,

I did haul and I split drive time with the customer. Basically that covers all fuel costs to and from.

LD1,
I do have a minimum time but I base that off how far away it is. Example I have a neighbor ( I can see his house from mine) who wanted an area tilled up and leveled for an above ground pool. We spoke on the phone about the job and he left it up to me when to do it. "Just let yourself in the back gate and text me when you do it and Ill drop payment off", were his instructions. It was a $20 dollar job, even though he brought me $30. If it goes on the trailer for the job its 2 hour3 minimum. If its out of my area I will split the drive time and at that point its 3 hours minimum.


Curtis

 

[RDrancher]

Looks like you've found a nice little niche.

The only time I work hourly if its additional "equipment only" work on a contract. I literally can't load up and go work for a couple of hours and charge like you do, it doesn't cover my costs. I quote every job, and I never sell on price. If I get a call from someone that tells me that they're getting multiple quotes, I know that they're price shopping and may give them a ballpark over the phone or politely bow out. My clients are paying for my reputation, construction knowledge, experience and operating talent. I think I have the best clients in the world, and referrals are golden!

Just like Eddie, I have clients that have to wait quite some time for me to get to their project. Sometimes I will start a phase of a project and then have to wait for weather or ground conditions to improve to get back to it. That makes my scheduling pretty hectic at times, but I want to give each client the best finished job possible the first time around.

Keep in mind that no matter what the location on the property, or how shallow you dig, you're always at risk of hitting underground utilities. Verizon is the worst around here for burying cable an inch or so deep, even across a gravel driveway. Call 811 and have them flag the work area whenever possible. I have a simple clause for unseen underground items like sprinkler lines and a rock clause built into my contracts. Even if its a small repair and you'll fix it for free anyway, it never hurts to cover your tail.

Like someone said on here, don't be afraid to say no. There are a few jobs (and potential customers) that come my way every year that I don't even want to mess with. If you get the feeling that something ain't right, it probably isn't.

 

[clemsonfor]

Clemsonfor,

I did haul and I split drive time with the customer. Basically that covers all fuel costs to and from.

LD1,
I do have a minimum time but I base that off how far away it is. Example I have a neighbor ( I can see his house from mine) who wanted an area tilled up and leveled for an above ground pool. We spoke on the phone about the job and he left it up to me when to do it. "Just let yourself in the back gate and text me when you do it and Ill drop payment off", were his instructions. It was a $20 dollar job, even though he brought me $30. If it goes on the trailer for the job its 2 hour3 minimum. If its out of my area I will split the drive time and at that point its 3 hours minimum.


Curtis

You must be all city or town driving to have that cover your costs? What i mean by that is that you must not go very far due to speed restrictions or traffic?

Example i live in a rural area. Say i wanted to do some work for a guy i work with or some of the folks in his neighborhood. Its about 30 mins from my house, the way i understand your not even charging oneway travel time? But i will assume that you mean that you spit it meaning that you bill going there your time and on the way home your on your time, so the 1 hour round trip turns to a .5hour coust to them. So going off that to get to this imaginary customers house in my case i could charge .5 hour travel time. They are located about 20 miles from my house. I get 8mpg, yes i know its low but i have an old truck, but say i have a more modern 10 yr old gasser, they get what 10mpg loaded ( i dont know i am guesses based on what i have heard)? So for analysis i will use 10mpg. I will use 2 gallons to just get to the house and 2 to get home so at $3.50/gallon i will spend $14 in travel fuel if i was getting 10mpg and the rest i guess could buy a gallon+ of deisel which would give me at least 2 hours run time on my tractor at working rpms. I see how if you bill like i laid out that you could cover your fuel, the farther and faster you go the less i think you wwill make out on this, but i dont think your going to have customers that are 2 hours away from you anyway?

 

[swick1]

The worst part for me wouldn't be the fuel cost but the risk of driving with a load, the hassle of loading and tying everything down, and the pain of putting it away and cleaning it without compensation

 

[clemsonfor]

yea I was thinking the same thing if you hurry it takes 15b minutes to tie just the tractor and bush hog down, if I take several implements It can take upwards of a half hour to load up!! then you have to unload, that's why my buddy who does this charges from the time his ramps hit the ground including unstrapping.

U could be like one of those types that just lowers the bucket and does not strap anything down.

 

[PILOON]

As far as I know, most equipment operators charge one way transportation on any job and waive that if the job is a sizable one. (unless the client is across the street)
One method I often used was to quote my hourly rate with a 'not to exceed price'.
Another is to (estimate the job) and simply to request a minimum 'trial' of i.e. 2 hours (+ travel)without further commitment. I.e. try me, I,m sure of myself and you will not be disappointed.

When I laid floors, I did it by the hour at my rates but would always be under the trade per ft rates and still made excellent $$. but usually added 'not to exceed the going per ft trade rate.

Most guys I know generally charge travel as 1 hour of equipment time.

Do not be afraid to have exclusions, like hidden objects if you are bush hogging or moving rocks bigger than your tractor can handle.( Dynamite is always an extra.)

The only trade that does not charge travel that I know of is the landscaper (lawn maintenance guys).