Problems with Trespassers

[RSKY]

After thinking about this overnight I think I would:

1. Go to the sheriff, state police, DA, etc, and make them aware that threats have been made. Make sure they know that you and your wife are arming for self protection but that you don't want it to go that far. You want a peaceful resolution.

2. Get the meanest lawyer you can find and file suit against every single person you have pictures of trespassing on your property. When the friends realize they are going to be in court over this they will stop aiding them. Promise the lawyer a higher percentage if you need to.

3. Probably should have been first. Put game cameras up. Always have a camera and audio recorder with you.

4. Put up a woven wire fence. You're going to need it later anyway.

5. Keep your cool. Don't resort to violence unless your life or your family's lives are in danger. But if you must protect yourself do so with speed and the utmost violence. Half measures like warning shots leave you open for legal action. It also gives them an excuse to shoot back at you since you fired first. The first time they see your weapon should be the last thing they see. But do everything possible to a a kid that type situation.

Posted from a phone so beware of auto correct mistakes.

 

[brin]

Your honesty is refreshing.

If I were in your shoes and have to shoot someone, I would worry about having said that though.

I'm not worried...I never post anything I would not say to someone's face or a judge and jury...I'll say it in a blanket statement....If someone ever threatens my life or the life of my family I will use the force necessary to stop the threat.

 

[RSKY]

I also want to say that I have known a few people that have had to use deadly force. There lives were never the same.

 

[dodge man]

What I've taken out of this thread is the OP seems to be the one with the most common sense. He hasn't shot anybody, he seems to be taking care of it in a fairly non-emotional manner. Just reading his posts, I think I trust his judgement on how to handle the problem.

 

[caps]

If you had bothered to read my earlier post, you would have seen that my suggestions included.....

a) getting a restraining order (I agreed with an earlier poster on that point)
b) video cameras
c) having a friend or relative there as additional protection and to act as a witness
d) yes, being armed with both lethal and non-lethal means

I posted earlier with my suggestions and agree with the above with a real caution regarding the use of lethal force. Lethal force is a very last resort only. Use of deadly force is not intuitive when the adrenalin is pumping and the brain is in overload. Even in the case where one is actually being shot at. I speak from both my experiences (20 years military, 7 years CI agent, 10 years security consultant, 10 years security clearance adjudicator) and that of others through extensive interviews and research. If you have not had extensive training and experience (like having actually been shot at) you are more likely than not to do something stupid. That is what the research showed. At one point I co-authored a "Use of Deadly Force" program of instruction for US Marshalls assigned to a government agency and as part of the research we found numerous cases where people shot without justification, started pulling the trigger before having cleared their pocket, missed, shot themselves, didn't know how many shots they fired, etc. One case involved a police officer and suspect in an alley who fired a total of 20 shots at a range of 10 feet and missed each other. The first time you are shot at, a normal reaction is disbelief - more of a "What the h*** was that!". Then there is a few seconds lag and the adrenalin starts and the body takes over and reacts (Oh s***) before the brain is in gear. In this state of panic, anything can and does happen. This happens even to police officers who have had training. Most LEO never fire their weapon at someone during their entire career. Really really think about it first before you carry a firearm. Well over half of the people we interviewed indicated that,in retrospect, they probably could have found a better way to resolve the situation and had some sort of remorse or continuing regret. Go to the police station and demand to file a signed affidavit (Complaint) and request the protection order. This will force them to have it reviewed by the prosecutor for possible action. Remember the police do not, for the most part, prevent crimes. Their usual methodology is catch and incarcerate those who have already committed a crime. You must be proactive and demand to file the sworn complaint. It is your choice of course, but again, really really think about the scenario that would require someone to die for resolution. Remember, once the gun is in your hand it will be presumed that you intend to use it...

 

[brin]

I also want to say that I have known a few people that have had to use deadly force. There lives were never the same.

In another life I was an MP and a civilian LEO....I know you are exactly right...taking a life is something everyone should pray they never have to do ...it does change everyone's life especially the dead thugs ./:confused3: Right ?

 

[houstonscott]

Interesting what we fear is the so called good guys getting it wrong and destroying our lives after we defend our lives, our wives, our property. Who do you fear most the police, justice system getting it wrong or the thugs.


HS

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Interesting what we fear is the so called good guys getting it wrong and destroying our lives after we defend our lives, our wives, our property. HS

Do you believe the OP should have had the right to just pull out an AA 12 and mow down all 6 people?

 

[houstonscott]

Much of that and there wouldn't be thugs. People would not pull that crap, and depending on where you live he might.

HS.

 

[newbury]

The OP is starting it right, he's got pictures to the law.

Now that I've seen the layout of the land the suggestion about the ditch is pretty good. You don't have to make it 10' deep with punji sticks. Just a nice mud wallow they can't get thru easily. Maybe with some spiked wood in the bottom to ensure their tires deflate. And line the sides with some stacked logs to funnel them into the ditch. Proper layout will make a good kill zone.

One other thing to try is to get a gang on your side. I've leased some of my land to a hunting club. They are VERY careful not to damage the property, they post it, and they guard it, and they pay me.