Electronic Governor?

[anesthes]

I ended up redoing the linkage to the foot throttle after a failed experiment with a governor. You see, the hydraulics on these skids are somwhat 'full blast' the second you move the handle. They are not gradual like a Bobcat. If you govern the engine at 3600 RPM and even touch the stick forward even the slightest bit the machine pops up and does a wheelie. It makes it impossible to use. The machine is meant to idle around 1,000 RPM, you use the hydraulics and then give it throttle in increase speed or lifting power.

I was not interested in changing out the valves (at this time, but will in the future), so right now I have a foot activated throttle. Does your skid have the VH4D engine or the ford engine? The correct carb for the VH4D is a zenith 62. I converted mine to propane over the winter. Very simple - drill out the jet to 1/4", then drill out the bowl drain to 1/4" where it intersects with the jet passage. Stick 1/4" brass tube in the jet so it protrudes into the venturi, and a fitting to a 5/16" hose to the bowl drain. Plug all other ports, remove choke, plug holes, etc. Running an T60 propane regulator which has lock off and idle control, and a 40lbs bottle. Starts under all conditions, doesn't skip, can be run indoors, doesn't smell, and doesn't contaminate the oil with soot. Best of all, if I don't use it over the winter there is no gas to go bad and gum up the carb!

-- Joe

 

[buickanddeere]

Sorry but I have to call you just plain crazy.
Using a rev limiter just blows unburned air/fuel mix out the exhaust any time engine load is below 100%. Besides wasting fuel, sooner or later you are going to briefly hear a very large Ka-Boom while sitting in the middle of your very own fuel/air bomb.
Find some sort of mechanical governor that operates the throttle or another engine with a working throttle.
Ask the members of your local fire, police, paramedic, ER room, coroner's office and physio therapy clinics. About such lackleg repairs.

 

[anesthes]

Sorry but I have to call you just plain crazy.
Using a rev limiter just blows unburned air/fuel mix out the exhaust any time engine load is below 100%. Besides wasting fuel, sooner or later you are going to briefly hear a very large Ka-Boom while sitting in the middle of your very own fuel/air bomb.
Find some sort of mechanical governor that operates the throttle or another engine with a working throttle.
Ask the members of your local fire, police, paramedic, ER room, coroner's office and physio therapy clinics. About such lackleg repairs.

Read my last post.

-- Joe

 

[buickanddeere]

If you want a true electronic governor, they are available. We have lots of aerial equipment equipped with them. Contact Precision Governors and they can help you out. They aren't inexpensive, but used ones occasionally show up on the auction sites. Hoof governors do work, but they're best suited for applications where the engine load isn't varying widely all the time. The Precision Governors use a control module/box that senses engine rpm and sends an output to a throttle control to maintain a set speed. Depending on the governor model, two or three speed "sets" can be programmed in. If you have the "mid speed" trimpot set for 1800 rpm for example, the module and throttle control will maintain that rpm. There are also trimpots for adjusting parameters like gain, so that a controller can be fine-tuned for different applications...since engine response to throttle inputs can vary widely from one application to another. Undershooting or overshooting can be virtually eliminated.

Speed settings, starter lockout settings, overspeed shutdown settings, etc are all dialed in with trimpots on the back of the governor box. No laptop interface required. Speed settings are input to the governor box during operation with a simple switch or relay. If the engine is idling, you flip a switch and the engine immediately comes up to the dialed-in rpm setting. Flipping another switch brings the engine speed up to the next dialed-in speed setting. One big advantage to the inputs being electrically switched is that remotely mounted engines don't need to have a convoluted throttle linkage or cable run from the operator station to the engine.

Here's a link to Precision Governors:

PG Engineered Control Solutions > Products > Controllers

The models we have the most of are the E-331 and E-301 governors. In addition to aerial equipment, they're found in gensets, floor and street sweepers, etc.

Sounds a lot like gen set governor system

 

[bamboozled]

I've got the Wisconsin VH4D engine. Right now the carb that is on it is the Zenith L63AV (correlates to 13405 B). The guy I bought it from said he called around and was told he needed the 12098 (correlates to L63A). Somebody had put a big nut in for a spacer to get the current carb to work, I tig'd up a proper spacer to replace the nut and that works so far, but as you said the hydros are pretty jumpy and it takes a little finesse to run smoothly. I don't see where you could even use a mechanical governor with the distributor up top but wasn't sure if there was something that was missing from the engine.

I was not interested in changing out the valves (at this time, but will in the future), so right now I have a foot activated throttle. Does your skid have the VH4D engine or the ford engine? The correct carb for the VH4D is a zenith 62.

-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

I've got the Wisconsin VH4D engine. Right now the carb that is on it is the Zenith L63AV (correlates to 13405 B). The guy I bought it from said he called around and was told he needed the 12098 (correlates to L63A). Somebody had put a big nut in for a spacer to get the current carb to work, I tig'd up a proper spacer to replace the nut and that works so far, but as you said the hydros are pretty jumpy and it takes a little finesse to run smoothly. I don't see where you could even use a mechanical governor with the distributor up top but wasn't sure if there was something that was missing from the engine.

Turn your idle down a little bit and the hydraulics will be less touchy. You need to get used to using the hydraulics and then pressing the accelerator pedal as load increases.

The carb spacer is normal. Keeps the linkage from crashing into the intake if I recall. The difference in carb is really just due to the year of the VH4D. Many carbs were sourced.

They do have a side mount distributor, I actually have one on a spare VH4D but it's impossible to get to when the engine is in a CL340.

The problem I have right now with mine is the charging system. I picked up a kohler 3 wire regulator/rectifier and am going to see if that solves the problem.

-- Joe

 

[bamboozled]

I wasn't aware there was a charging system on these things?

I'll have to adjust the throttle stop screw, right now at throttle stop is tries to idle down around 700-800 rpm until it stalls. If I hold the peddle up around 1000-1100 it idles just fine. Right now I've got the hydro oil drained and the fuel tanks out, fuel tanks need cleaned and coated on the inside (pinholes) and I'm working on getting the brakes in order. I ordered trailer backing plates, a dico master cylinder and sourced some wheel cylinders that will replace the single plunger wheel cylinders that came with the trailer brake kits. Also got the chain boxes drained and trying to get the sludge out to put in new gear oil, there was a lot of water in the chain boxes.

The other issue I noticed is that once the engine heats up, it starts back-firing when I try to rev it so I assume some of the valves are sticking. I also noticed I seem to have a lot of blow-by once the engine is running as seen by the exhaust from the breather. My compression test showed 40-70 psi cold from what I recall so I assume it needs rings at the least. I'm going to pull the exhaust and the intake off, and see what's going on in the valve boxes, then decide if I want to rebuild or just move a little dirt at a time and let things cool down in between sessions. I just bought this thing to move a couple loads of dirt from my front yard to my backyard to fill in a hill side where the previous owner dug out for an above ground pool.

 

[anesthes]

I wasn't aware there was a charging system on these things?

I'll have to adjust the throttle stop screw, right now at throttle stop is tries to idle down around 700-800 rpm until it stalls. If I hold the peddle up around 1000-1100 it idles just fine. Right now I've got the hydro oil drained and the fuel tanks out, fuel tanks need cleaned and coated on the inside (pinholes) and I'm working on getting the brakes in order. I ordered trailer backing plates, a dico master cylinder and sourced some wheel cylinders that will replace the single plunger wheel cylinders that came with the trailer brake kits. Also got the chain boxes drained and trying to get the sludge out to put in new gear oil, there was a lot of water in the chain boxes.

The other issue I noticed is that once the engine heats up, it starts back-firing when I try to rev it so I assume some of the valves are sticking. I also noticed I seem to have a lot of blow-by once the engine is running as seen by the exhaust from the breather. My compression test showed 40-70 psi cold from what I recall so I assume it needs rings at the least. I'm going to pull the exhaust and the intake off, and see what's going on in the valve boxes, then decide if I want to rebuild or just move a little dirt at a time and let things cool down in between sessions. I just bought this thing to move a couple loads of dirt from my front yard to my backyard to fill in a hill side where the previous owner dug out for an above ground pool.

Oh Boy!

So if you look at the flywheel area, three wires come out of there. They connect to two rectangle boxes about 2" long each. One is the rectifier, the other is the regulator. They often fail and can be replaced with a kohler or kabota 2 in one module. (around $30).

The brake parts are all available from NAPA. I have all the numbers if you need anything. (I have all the original owners and service manuals, as well as part cross reference). The master cylinder is an erickson unit, commonly found on fork lifts. I think a new one cost me $45.

My original engine had blowby and low compression, so I swapped it with a good VH4D. I bought rings and parts to rebuild it. Maybe one day when #2 fails.

I'd remove the tin from around the heads and check the cooling fins. I suspect your back firing once hot is because rodents have pulled material into the cooling fins, and the engine is over heating. This is very typical on VH4D. They are very attractive rodent homes. Vac it all out and you should be fine.

Ditch the points, and get an ignitor.

I have not looked inside the gear boxes of mine in a number of years. I probably should go through it before the winter.

-- Joe

 

[bamboozled]

Oh Boy!

I'd remove the tin from around the heads and check the cooling fins. I suspect your back firing once hot is because rodents have pulled material into the cooling fins, and the engine is over heating. This is very typical on VH4D. They are very attractive rodent homes. Vac it all out and you should be fine.

Bingo. I've read that before about these engines, but for some reason I had it in my mind that they couldn't be clogged up. Well, they were and what was left of my lower tins pretty much fell apart. I found a couple reasonably priced Wisconsins local on craigslist awhile back. One was a VF4 that I figured I could use for parts, another is another VH4D but it has the lower distributor. I'm going give the VF4 guy a call tomorrow and see if he still has it.

Finished breaking down the chain boxes today, I need two bearings on one side and one bearing on the other. Got those on order. A couple of broken pins that will be welded back up also. At some point there must have been something catastrophic on the right hand side, the outside of the chain box had been welded wear it tore and a quarter inch plate was on the inside. There was some signs of carnage on the inside of the chain box as well.

Are the axle bearings supposed to have seals on the outside? Mine seem to spew quite a bit of grease out of the bearings, but I didn't know if that was normal and a function to flush the old grease out and you just wipe it off as it comes out or not.

Mouse House:







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The lift cylinders ends are pretty wore out too. Can I just cut the end off and weld on new tubes for mounts? Or does the cylinder need to be dismantled first? I figured I could extend the piston and remove the hoses, drain the cylinder and cut off the old and weld on a new rear mount.



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Anybody have any idea what this thing on the distributor is for (in the red circle)? It's like a lever that moves back and forth, but no idea what it does yet.

 

[anesthes]

Bingo. I've read that before about these engines, but for some reason I had it in my mind that they couldn't be clogged up. Well, they were and what was left of my lower tins pretty much fell apart. I found a couple reasonably priced Wisconsins local on craigslist awhile back. One was a VF4 that I figured I could use for parts, another is another VH4D but it has the lower distributor. I'm going give the VF4 guy a call tomorrow and see if he still has it.

Finished breaking down the chain boxes today, I need two bearings on one side and one bearing on the other. Got those on order. A couple of broken pins that will be welded back up also. At some point there must have been something catastrophic on the right hand side, the outside of the chain box had been welded wear it tore and a quarter inch plate was on the inside. There was some signs of carnage on the inside of the chain box as well.

Are the axle bearings supposed to have seals on the outside? Mine seem to spew quite a bit of grease out of the bearings, but I didn't know if that was normal and a function to flush the old grease out and you just wipe it off as it comes out or not.

Mouse House:

Anybody have any idea what this thing on the distributor is for (in the red circle)? It's like a lever that moves back and forth, but no idea what it does yet.

Glad you found the mouse nest. It happens to ALL of these. The thing circled looks like an extended grease port on the prestolite distributer ?

I'd be weary of welding those lift cylinders. Maybe if you went slow and constantly cooled the surrounding area.

The axles should have seals I think. You still have grease ports on the outside of the machine, right?

New Holland CL340 Section 002 DRIVE COMPONENTS 19ER3401 AIR-COOLED & 19ER3421 WATER COOLED



-- Joe