Stump Pulling with 3-Point - Any concerns?

[Gary Fowler]

Lift arms pivot ~ rear axle location, and the ends can rise in relation. Virtually no developing resistance to back tip in a pull.
larry

I didn't imply that there is resistance to back flip. However if the 3 PH is not raised above the fixed drawbar height, then you are pulling from below center of gravity and traction looses before flipping can occur. Not many tractors have the traction to pull the front end off the ground when the attachment point is below the axle. Personally I wouldn't use the lift arms to pull with other than just using them to lift up with the tractor stationary. Also jerking the stump with chain or strap as suggested by others will stress all the components on the tractor (including the chain or strap) and may not be the best thing to do.
Before I got my back hoe, I would use my box blade scarifiers to break the side roots on trees and then dig them out with the FEL or just push it over. I never liked pulling on a tree with a chain close up as the tree usually ends up on top of the tractor even small ones can thrash you a good bit when they come over on you.
It is amazing how much a small root can hold on a straight pull, so cutting even a few of them will allow for the tree to pull up much easier.

 

[deezler]

He was lucky he didn't have enough torque to flip that tractor. He hooked to the top link probably right after he put the rear tires on backwards.

Jesus, what a disgrace. And he ruined his driveway once the stump actually came out.... moron!

edit: to perhaps add something of actual use to this thread, here is a thought in a totally different direction.

Why use the 3-pt at all?

For 2-4" trees, I just use the front loader. bend 'em over (don't snap the trunk), and get the roots loosened up. Pull them back or drive around and push it over the other way, now you are close. Finally get the loader bucket underneath some of the roots, and curl. POP! out comes the tree. Sometimes it'll even come out in the bucket, and you can drive the whole thing off to the brush or burn pile.

Why get off the tractor and fiddle with chains and wheels when you can just stay on the tractor and let your front loader do the work?

 

[TomSeller]

Getting the extra weight on the back sure helps in the traction department.

If you notice in the big time tractor pulls, the front tires bob off the ground. They are hitched just right. Max weight on the rear wheels, but not enough that the tractor flips back. Note they are 2 wd.

 

[Xfaxman]

I have a 100+ small pine trees (2-4" diameter) I want to remove, some around my pond are not conducive to pulling out with a longer chain.

With that many trees I would rent a skid steer with a tree puller.

Pictures from Google Image Search

I have a long arm tree puller on my V417, so much faster than using a chain!


The view from the seat.


Link to pulling the big cedar: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/277824-tree-puller.html#post3444397

 

[The Fred]

Another EXCELLENT thread by some super members of TBN!
You guys are out standing in your field!
Fred

 

[Egon]

Don't know about now but fifty years ago when hitched to the draw bar ( very few three points then ) if the tractor had traction and some low gears it wasn't uncommon to have the front wheels off the ground. When doing this you always had a hand or foot on the clutch.:thumbsup:

Soo how should pulling be done?

 

[The Fred]

Soo how should pulling be done?



Mini excavator works well, Fred

 

[LD1]

Soo how should pulling be done?

From the fixed drawbar, which is BELOW the axle CL

 

[Egon]

From the fixed drawbar, which is BELOW the axle CL

Yes; but one may still have a backflip,

 

[LD1]

Yes; but one may still have a backflip,

That is debatable, but it is still how pulling "should" be done.

Doing things the way they "should" be done is no guarantee with anything, but has the least risk to the equipment and operator.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I
I did answer his question. Why does everyone keep saying that I Just said "dont do it...too dangerous". Re-read my post. And re-read the posts prior to it. The whole story was given by more than one other person. There is severe flip-over risk due to the elevated hitch, and added traction. I dont know what else to add????

I think youre spending too much time on a nitpic constructed by rtgt. In the name of progress we should bypass that pretty quick. In reality, eliminating risk is a huge impediment to getting anything done. Understanding risks and working with them circumspectly is the closest we can come and is a hugely efficient tool. In the 1st of my links in post#33 above, BabyGrand, in thread post#20, describes a very effective way of lifting and pulling high while automatically reducing risk a LOT. Yay BG!

 

[bcp]

Two from:
CDC - NIOSH Update - NIOSH Warns: Improper Hitching to Tractors Can Be Fatal

On January 3, 1994, a 42-year old female farmer died from chest injuries when a 1970-model tractor she was using to pull a loaded pickup truck out of snow overturned to the rear. The tow chain had been attached at the top link connection of the tractor's three point hitch. The tractor did not have a ROPS.

On June 22, 1996, a 29-year old male died from multiple crushing injuries when his 1950-model tractor flipped over, pinning him underneath. The operator of the tractor was clearing trees and brush in the yard of his newly built home. The tow chain was found to be attached to a six inch tree stump, and fastened at the top of the three point hitch attachment.

==========================
Another post worth reading:

tractor-rollover-myths-facts

Bruce

 

[SPYDERLK]

This concept works except the rim is usually too narrow and either turns over or buries in the ground. A large section of tree about 24" or more inches long x 20+" in diameter works better and if you have an FEL it can be moved easily into place.
I have pulled small trees using a 3 PH drawbar with larger tractors by just backing up and wrapping a chain around the sapling and raising the lift. NO danger of turning over even if the front end comes up. Lifting AND driving forward does make for a very dangerous situation. If you do that, don't raise the lift arms more than about 18" above ground (about same height as your fixed drawbar) and you should be ok since anytime the front raises enough to lower the 3 PH it would be pulling the rear wheel up also and reduce traction.

I didn't imply that there is resistance to back flip. However if the 3 PH is not raised above the fixed drawbar height, then you are pulling from below center of gravity and traction looses before flipping can occur. Not many tractors have the traction to pull the front end off the ground when the attachment point is below the axle.

I interpreted the red hilited statement as resistance to back flip by reducing traction. This does not happen. If the tractor front rises its between you and the clutch to prevent backflip.
larry

 

[Egon]

21. Can I haul logs or jerk stumps with my tractor?

No. Wheel tractors were not designed for this type of operation. Any operation that involves a highly resistant load increases the chance of a back-flip on a tractor. The combination of good traction, horsepower, and low gearing causes the tractor to rotate up on the rear differential when the load stops. Additionally most tractors arlnot designed to hitch such loads appropriately.

Skidding logs is extremely dangerous due to the likelihood that the log will dig in or hang up. This will cause an immediate back-flip and death. The appropriate way to skid logs is to use a log skidder which is designed for this purpose. If one isn't handy a more practical approach is to purchase a winch. Many crawlers in logging areas of the country are equipped for this.

A stump is a highly resistant load so the same problems apply. A back hoe or excavator is designed for digging which is the best way to remove a stump. A crawler with a bulldozer blade can also perform this operation but the size required is usually beyond the capabilities of a small farm operation. Another drawback of using a crawler is that you may have to dig a swimming pool sized hole to get a large stump out.
22. Are tractors dangerous?

 

[FTG-05]

Sorry, but I've lost the train of thought here.

Are we talking about:

- Pulling a stump out by jerking it out attached to the 3 PH lift e.g. the two videos posted above, one by me, one by another this one showing the tractor flipping over at the tractor pulling contest.

OR

- Pulling up a stump by backing into the stump, attaching the 3PH to the stump, and then lifting up the stump to pull it out of the ground - no real forward motion, almost all 3PH up motion/force.

I can understand the first being dangerous, the videos above make that clear. But pulling straight up with the 3PH, with no significant forward motion, I'm not seeing the danger here. May not work either, don't know.

I still like NC's method: Pull the tree/stump over with the tree attached and all the leverage that gives you. That's gonna be my plan for three trees I've targeted for termination with extreme prejudice!

Thanks,

 

[SPYDERLK]

We really dont know what were talking about. We hit the actual OP subject occasionaly, at random. :confused3:

 

[rtgt]

:whiteflag:

I wasn't meaning to nitpic... I apologize.

I re-read the whole thread.

The OP's question was can he lift the trees out with his 3pt hitch. General answer is maybe. Caution was not to pull forward while doing this, which will cause a filp over.

Somehow the topic got to the idea or onto the subject of 'pulling' from the 3 pt.

Then it got to 'even though I do this, you don't have enough experience so don't do this' point - which is one of my pet peaves, and even though I know better (experience) (but sometimes I just can't remember why....) I had to open my big mouth. My bad. Again, I apologize.

The OP's question appears to have been answered in the first few posts. The rest of the post, including mine, don't have anything to do with the original question. So, to the OP - I apologize.

I'll shut up now.

 

[TomSeller]

With that many trees I would rent a skid steer with a tree puller.
]

Dang, you have the coolest attachments! Now I have tree puller envy.

 

[Xfaxman]

Dang, you have the coolest attachments! Now I have tree puller envy.

Thanks. The tree puller is one of the attachments most used here right now.

 

[Baby Grand]

I think youre spending too much time on a nitpic constructed by rtgt. In the name of progress we should bypass that pretty quick. In reality, eliminating risk is a huge impediment to getting anything done. Understanding risks and working with them circumspectly is the closest we can come and is a hugely efficient tool. In the 1st of my links in post#33 above, BabyGrand, in thread post#20, describes a very effective way of lifting and pulling high while automatically reducing risk a LOT. Yay BG!

Thanks for the shout-out, Larry!
You are on the mark about risk management.
It's easy to get consumed with concerns about absolute safety when a tractor is really never an absolutely safe proposition.
There's a lot of value in asking how to do something and considering all of the responses.
Some you can dismiss as being too general, or not related to you particular set of circumstances, etc, etc.
At some point you have to decide to do something and, based on all of the comments that this thread has generated, the OP can put together a pretty good story about what might work best for his particular conditions.

That's what I like about this place, you get people coming at a seemingly simple problem from all different directions. Some you'd never have thought of on your own - at least that's been my experience. Allows you to develop your own judgement as you gain experience while avoiding major dumb@ss ideas so you can live to tractor another day ...