DK50SE HST No Ballast Lifting

[Egbert]

"Most importantly, as you said, it should be used as designed, and Kioti specs 1,047lbs on the 3pt for FEL use."

So,why doesn't Kioti then sell a 3 pt 1,047 lb rear ballast, with receiver hitch and tool caddy, as an option? Sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[Sysop]

One reason could be that to buy premade factory "weight" for a tractor is generally right near a dollar per pound (and sometimes more).

 

[Egbert]

I've seen lots of folks on here talking about their own designs. Simple barrel and concrete sounds like a great idea. Now, I can certainly fill a barrel with concrete - but - not being crafty and having no welder, I would like to be able to purchase the empty assembly - ready to fill. Can't find that anywhere either.

If one of you guys care to market the idea - I'll take 10 percent.

 

[Sysop]

No welding skills required. Go to tractor supply and pick up a carry all frame. Find an old 55 gallon drum and cut the top off. Knock a couple holes in it to insert the arms of the carry all frame (smaller the hole and tighter the fit the better). Wedge what PVC "tool holders" you want in it and fill it with concrete. As long as you do a good mix and keep it wet and cool while it cures, it should never "let go" of the carryall frame.

 

[CJONE]

Nope, physics, and levers don't work that way. If you put 1 pound on the 3pt, it's taking weight off the front axle. Every pound you add to the 3pt is taking weight off the front axle, because it's gradually transferring it to the rear axle, and eventually, you could have zero on the front axle (if the tires lift).

In a practical sense, my loader can lift almost as much as yours (2,638lbs at pin), and with no rear ballast, I was able to just barely lift 1,300lbs (weighed as such). With that 1,300lbs turned into a 1,350lb counterweight, I can put my forks under something I can't lift at all (FEL hits relief) and the rears stay planted. That is clearly taking a lot weight off the front.

Most importantly, as you said, it should be used as designed, and Kioti specs 1,047lbs on the 3pt for FEL use. I don't think they did that by mistake....it's to protect the front axle, and keep you safe.

Well actually yes it does. I design hydraulic systems and with cylinders and leverage has to be a consideration and has to be calculated. Real simple. If the back end is off the ground with 1000lbs of ballast and it is rocking on the front axle the total weight IS ON THE FRONT AXLE. CJ

 

[CJONE]

And once you have done that, you have exceded the specs of the loader (and probably the whole tractor). Others have already given the official specs of what is needed to achieve the maximum lift capacity. Follow that and the front axle lives to see another job.

I guess I will be the test subject then. Been operating and fixing every kind of equipment for a long time. So far I have over 300 hours on this unit with almost all of it as loader use or abuse as some seem to think. If I break it I will fix it. But I will find the weak link if there is one. I see alot of repair work and I am not afraid to tackle just about anything. last evening I rebuilt a 10.5" GM rear diff and started on my backhoe mount for the Kioti, so soon I guess I will be overloading the back and the front!! Anyway I done with this one, it is going no where fast. We'll keep everyone informed when/if I break it. CJ

 

[IslandTractor]

I guess I will be the test subject then. Been operating and fixing every kind of equipment for a long time. So far I have over 300 hours on this unit with almost all of it as loader use or abuse as some seem to think. If I break it I will fix it. But I will find the weak link if there is one. I see alot of repair work and I am not afraid to tackle just about anything. last evening I rebuilt a 10.5" GM rear diff and started on my backhoe mount for the Kioti, so soon I guess I will be overloading the back and the front!! Anyway I done with this one, it is going no where fast. We'll keep everyone informed when/if I break it. CJ

For those who have never looked at the size of castings on the Kioti DK, it is interesting to compare them to some of the similar HP Kubotas. I think Kubota emphasizes light weight to optimize lawn mowing and certainly some of that weight reduction is due to lighter duty axles. Kubota clearly knows how to build stronger loaders than they put on their B and L tractors and I suspect they limit the power because of the compromise in axle size.

 

[GManBart]

Well actually yes it does. I design hydraulic systems and with cylinders and leverage has to be a consideration and has to be calculated. Real simple. If the back end is off the ground with 1000lbs of ballast and it is rocking on the front axle the total weight IS ON THE FRONT AXLE. CJ

We don't normally drive around on just the front wheels, do we? No, we drive around with all four on the ground. That means there is weight on both axles. Any weight you add to the front subtracts weight from the rear, and vice-versa.

 

[GManBart]

I guess I will be the test subject then. Been operating and fixing every kind of equipment for a long time. So far I have over 300 hours on this unit with almost all of it as loader use or abuse as some seem to think. If I break it I will fix it. But I will find the weak link if there is one.

It would seem that Kioti already did the test subject portion, and you're just ignoring their listed specs for proper operation of the machine. If it didn't matter, why would they list an exact weight the way they did? :confused3:

 

[CJONE]

For those who have never looked at the size of castings on the Kioti DK, it is interesting to compare them to some of the similar HP Kubotas. I think Kubota emphasizes light weight to optimize lawn mowing and certainly some of that weight reduction is due to lighter duty axles. Kubota clearly knows how to build stronger loaders than they put on their B and L tractors and I suspect they limit the power because of the compromise in axle size.

I 100% agree with you, that is one of the reasons I purchased the Kioti was the heavy build of the unit and the use that I was going to put it through. Alot of my use cannot be done in 2wd because of the loads on the frontend. This tractor is in 4x4 alot. CJ

 

[CJONE]

It would seem that Kioti already did the test subject portion, and you're just ignoring their listed specs for proper operation of the machine. If it didn't matter, why would they list an exact weight the way they did? :confused3:

I am used to Cat and John Deere machinery, their listed specs are very conservative and from what I have experienced Kioti's are also. CJ

 

[King of the Road]

No welding skills required. Go to tractor supply and pick up a carry all frame. Find an old 55 gallon drum and cut the top off. Knock a couple holes in it to insert the arms of the carry all frame (smaller the hole and tighter the fit the better). Wedge what PVC "tool holders" you want in it and fill it with concrete. As long as you do a good mix and keep it wet and cool while it cures, it should never "let go" of the carryall frame.

Where should the carry all frame be located in the drum(bottom, middle, top, ect)?

Does anyone know what a 55 gallon drum of cured concrete weighs?

I'm a builder so I can get all the concrete I need free(excess form pours, it usually goes on the ground).

 

[k0ua]

Rough answer, about 20 lbs per gallon so 20x55=1100. It depends some on the aggregate used, etc.

You are going to want about the same amount or just a bit more ground clearance than your tractor has. So your departure angle is good enough to go down a slope that levels out and not drag the weight. Most likely just set the barrel on the carryall, as its pins are probably set at about the right height.

 

[GManBart]

Where should the carry all frame be located in the drum(bottom, middle, top, ect)?

Does anyone know what a 55 gallon drum of cured concrete weighs?

I'm a builder so I can get all the concrete I need free(excess form pours, it usually goes on the ground).

At one point I was going to make a counterweight out of a 55gal drum, and calculated I would need 13 80lb bags of Quikrete, and it would have wound up around 1,100lbs.

 

[Jmsmithy]

When using the FEL, weight aft of the rear axle is your front axle's best friend.
I always throw the tiller or box blade on the back if I'm lifting with the front.

Lucky to have a barn big enough to keep my 7' Kodiak Brush Mower attached :cool2:

 

[Whiskey Sniffer]

I would like to see some pictures of your three point ballast, I will need to do this as I anticipate some heavy lifting come Spring. Ahh Spring.

 

[GManBart]

I would like to see some pictures of your three point ballast, I will need to do this as I anticipate some heavy lifting come Spring. Ahh Spring.

Not sure if you were asking about mine or not....but here's the thread I started on it. The scrap yard is only 2mi from my house, so it was convenient.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-counterweight-idea-1300-lbs.html#post3299956

Here's the short, short version:

 

[Egbert]

Does anyone know what a 55 gallon drum of cured concrete weighs?

Finally got around to putting together some ballast for the rear of my DK50. Picked up a TSC CarryAll, the arms of which are somewhat wider than the 55 gallon drum. Built a deck out of 2x10 lumber, bolted on the drum, filled it with readymix, 3 pieces of 3" pvc inserted as tool carriers and also inserted a sheath for a chainsaw. Plan to paint it to match the tractor. With the cement and the combined weight of the hardware, I figure this is just over 900lbs. Could have added another 100lbs but the carryall is rated at 1000lbs and I didn't want to exceed the capacity. Total cost was about $225. I'll post a pic when I get time.

 

[Whiskey Sniffer]

Very nice counter weight . Thanks for the picture.

 

[GManBart]

Very nice counter weight . Thanks for the picture.

There's a guy in the area selling them already made...using a drawbar through the bottom, and I can't tell from the picture what he uses for the top link, but they're cheap, and heavy at $110 for 1,245lbs:

Large counter weight 3 point hitch