Which Implement For Vine And Root Removal From Woods? (Sandy-Loam Soil)

[jeff9366]

My tractor/loader is a Kubota B3300SU, 1,900 pounds, 4-WD, 33-hp, 60" tire width.

( Next year I may buy a Kubota L3560HST, also 60" wide, but 3,500 pounds, after observing how reliable the Tier IV emissions compliant iterations are. )

I want to kill/remove thick subsurface wild grape vines and soft wood tree roots from rock free, Florida sandy-loam soil, which has never been plowed. Roots are 3"-5" deep, not more.

Roots are my goal to remove. I will dig out Palmettos and 3" stumps with FEL Bucket Spade.

I will mow vine areas with a Rotary Cutter before de-rooting.

I have a 587 pound Rollover Box Blade, but I can only pull it with five rippers down when the soil is perfectly moist, and then it requires HST/LOW and throttle. The rippers are too broad/blunt/straight.

Is there a supplier for 3/4" - 1" thick, parabolic shaped, Box Blade rippers?

I have about ten acres to de-root. What would be the best dedicated de-rooting implement?

Chisel Plow? Perhaps Dirt Dog 60"? Or a J-5 from Hay-King, weight unknown? (Parabolic shape)

Pasture Renovator like C-2 or C-3 ($1,300) Hay-King, possibly with coulters removed?

"Unique ripping foot designed to penetrate below coulter and cut approximately 5-1/2-inch average depth with a draft and lifting action of the sod and with minimum surface disturbance." KEY WORD: LIFTING.

( From T-B-N Archive: "I've spoken with the Hay King folks, and they can build a custom unit that can use either the renovator shanks (with or without the coulters) and that can also use the chisel shanks as well.")

Or TRI-5 from Sweet Tractors? (Parabolic shape)

Scarifier, Land Pride SF2566 ($800)?

Moldboard Plow, two bottom, Ford 101?

Field Cultivator, Fred Cain, 60"?

Subsoiler, One Shank or Two Shanks?

Other? (On-topic suggestions, please.)

Thanks in advance.

PRODUCT LINKS:

Dirt Dog APP60 5 60" 5 Shank All Purpose Chisel Plow | eBay

K&M Mfg. Product 3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-TRI-5-S...avy_Equipment_Attachments&hash=item257a0dddf1

http://www.landpride.com/ari/attach/lp/public/lit/lit_sf25.pdf

Fred Cain Tractor 5 Shank 3 Point Field Cultivator, Ripper, Tillage Tool, Jitterbug, Field plow, Bermuda grass plow



Note grape vine roots in both photos.

 

[OldMcDonald]

I would say you have a very big task ahead of you. I have cleared many isolated trees, but only a couple of acres of closer spaced - grubbing out an old olive grove, and in that case I worked close to each individual tree to identify those with a strong root system that would need to be dug out rather than pulled over. First, some negatives. A disc in front of a tine will not cut through most of the roots you show in the photos. A spring loaded shank will not lift the length of roots you show. The tine will often go underneath, and break the root or stop the tractor. In this case I suspect you will bring very little to the surface. Alternately the root will be stronger (often due to length increasing the force needed to move it) and the springs will be stretched to their limit before the shank slams back into position. Do this often and you will break springs. I have a 7 tine implement similar to the Fred Cain one, and which I refer to as a scarifier. In Australia I also had a root rake attached to a front blade. This worked well where heavy timber had been pulled and the roots left in the ground, but it only worked about 4" below the surface.

I have had success in lifting roots also by using a single leg fixed subsoiler. I think the mouldboard plough (without a disc or tine in front of the plough) would do the job, but you would probably need to go shallow on the first pass and you will obviously have an enormous quantity of rubbish to rake and burn - but you will have that whatever method you use.

Best of luck with it all, and you will have immense satisfaction when it is completed.

 

[lostcreekranch]

Jeff;

You need one of these. ;-)

Rick

http://www.lynnhendrixequipment.com/

 

[jeff9366]

"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."

One of my Grandmother's sayings.

$1,500 is max I can spend.

 

[Sodo]

I'm pretty happy with a land rake on the forward end of brush forks, which gives me a long reach into the bushes (ahead of the front wheels). Possible you can get a land rake and a brushfork for $1500 if you can do a little fabrication. You just have to remove the rake from the 3-point and attach it to the brush forks. These rakes quick-release from the forks so after scraping up a pile you can remove the rakes and take the pile away. I built my setup just yesterday and have done initial tests only. You can see more in a different thread HERE.

Not sure how much force you need below the surface to pull these roots up but 3-5" doesn't sound like much. My setup is on a BX24 and as you can imagine there's not much weight available, and I think in sandy soil it would do the job so a B3300 might do it twice as well. Also in the pic above I'm using the 'bucket float" feature to NOT dig the forks in. I suppose a guy could strap some sacks of sand into the bucket for more front weight.

If you are getting an L3650 for this job that's going to cost a lot more than $1500 :shocked: But I understand, I'd sure like to get rid of the little BX and get a 30hp.

 

[jeff9366]

Hey....

A very innovative fabrication.

 

[leonz]

My tractor/loader is a Kubota B3300SU, 1,900 pounds, 4-WD, 33-hp, 60" tire width.

( Next year I may buy a Kubota L3560HST, also 60" wide, but 3,500 pounds, after observing how reliable the Tier IV emissions compliant iterations are. )

I want to kill/remove thick subsurface wild grape vines and soft wood tree roots from rock free, Florida sandy-loam soil, which has never been plowed. Roots are 3"-5" deep, not more.

Roots are my goal to remove. I will dig out Palmettos and 3" stumps with FEL Bucket Spade.

I will mow vine areas with a Rotary Cutter before de-rooting.

I have a 587 pound Rollover Box Blade, but I can only pull it with five rippers down when the soil is perfectly moist, and then it requires HST/LOW and throttle. The rippers are too broad/blunt/straight.

Is there a supplier for 3/4" - 1" thick, parabolic shaped, Box Blade rippers?

I have about ten acres to de-root. What would be the best dedicated de-rooting implement?

Chisel Plow? Perhaps Dirt Dog 60"? Or a J-5 from Hay-King, weight unknown? (Parabolic shape)

Pasture Renovator like C-2 or C-3 ($1,300) Hay-King, possibly with coulters removed?

"Unique ripping foot designed to penetrate below coulter and cut approximately 5-1/2-inch average depth with a draft and lifting action of the sod and with minimum surface disturbance." KEY WORD: LIFTING.

( From T-B-N Archive: "I've spoken with the Hay King folks, and they can build a custom unit that can use either the renovator shanks (with or without the coulters) and that can also use the chisel shanks as well.")

Or TRI-5 from Sweet Tractors? (Parabolic shape)

Scarifier, Land Pride SF2566 ($800)?

Moldboard Plow, two bottom, Ford 101?

Field Cultivator, Fred Cain, 60"?

Subsoiler, One Shank or Two Shanks?

Other? (On-topic suggestions, please.)

Thanks in advance.

PRODUCT LINKS:

Dirt Dog APP60 5 60" 5 Shank All Purpose Chisel Plow | eBay

K&M Mfg. Product 3

New Tri 5 Shank Tiller Ripper Renovator Can SHIP Cheap Fast | eBay

http://www.landpride.com/ari/attach/lp/public/lit/lit_sf25.pdf

Fred Cain Tractor 5 Shank 3 Point Field Cultivator, Ripper, Tillage Tool, Jitterbug, Field plow, Bermuda grass plow



Note grape vine roots in both photos.

IF the soil is a good as you say it and the wild grape vines are Concords the
only real option you have is to purchase a single moldboard plow and plow deep
12-14 inches providing you have ballast in the rear tires for traction.

That is really the only option you have as a moldboard plow will work well providing
you purchase one with a fluted coulter-the coulter slices a groove in the soil
before the plow share digs in behind the coulter and the share rolls the dirt
over in the furrow. The fluted coulter cuts into the trash layer AND ROOTS.

 

[bcp]

Might find some ideas here:

Root plow images

I've watched the wide horizontal blades pulled by a Cat, but even a smaller one may be too much for a CUT.

Here are some for a 3pt hitch.

http://www.dallasweb.com/jones/

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...squite-tree-spraying-pains-2.html#post1758151

Bruce

 

[jeff9366]

bcp: I have a long-handled scuffle hoe in the garage. Maybe I can adapt it to the tractor.......

 

[jeff9366]

IF the soil is a good as you say it and the wild grape vines are Concords the
only real option you have is to purchase a single moldboard plow and plow deep
12-14 inches.

The vines are Vitus rotundfolia of some kind, as is Concord. Mine are probably closely related to Scuppernong.

I recently took delivery of a vintage Ford Series 101, 2-14 Moldboard Plow with fluted coulters, from Sweet Tractor. My concern is cutting up the roots into small sections underground, then having each small vine section start a new vine in the Spring.

 

[OldMcDonald]

jeff, That is why I suggested the mouldboard plough without a tine or coulter in front. It will pull much longer lengths onto the surface, although I still think that a disc in front would not cut through the roots you showed, just mess up thwe action of the plough. Whatever you do, you are going to have an enormous amount of raking up to do. I do not know whether the species of vine you have will strike from root cuttings - perhaps they do not. Best to find out though if what you use is likely to chop them up, but even if they did, small pieces could be cultivated out next summer as if they were strong rooted weeds. You can win. It just takes time.

 

[jeff9366]

I have an e-mail from Hay King:

Hay King J-5 Chisel Plow weighs 600 pounds, $1410 approximately, plus freight from Texas.

 

[CJONE]

Rent a dozer/loader with a root rake. CJ

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I have an e-mail from Hay King:

Hay King J-5 Chisel Plow weighs 600 pounds, $1410 approximately, plus freight from Texas.

Jeff, a chisel plow is not made to rip out roots, etc. Rather, it's made for breaking up the soil AFTER the roots and vines have been cleared. I'd be afraid of bending and/or breaking the shanks on a chisel. Once a shank is sprung, it needs to be replaced. (Read: $$).

That Hay King Renovator looks pretty good, but notice that it has shear bolts on the rippers. If your vines offer enough resistance to start breaking the shear bolts, that could quickly become a PITA to replace shear bolts all the time. Before I spent money on it, I'd call Hay King and talk to them about my intended use and see what they say.

Also, what will the Renovator do that your ROBB won't do? Can you remove the two outside rippers on your ROBB so the pulling power of your tractor more closely matches the job? If not, is there any chance you could rent or borrow a bigger tractor to see what your ROBB would do to the vines with a little more HP in front of it? If it does a great job in that situation, I'd be more inclined to spend the $1,410 on a smaller ROBB, which could be sold after the job is finished.

 

[BGigHarbor]

I've been ripping out scotchbroom (mature ones, some 12 ft tall) roots and blackberry roots, etc from a number of acres and have had decent luck with the scarifiers on my hrl3578.I sometimes use the hydraulic top to angle the teeth in deeper, but often that is too deep a bite.

The heavy passes have to be downhill (traction) and it generates massive amounts of material. The whole box turns into a big bundle and I then am able to clear the box by lifting and retracting the hydra scarifier bar. It would be a challenge to clear the box without the hydra scarifiers as it all gets intertwined pretty good with the stiff roots.

I use a grapple to move and pile elsewhere. Also a landscape rake helps then raking the smaller stuff. Amazing how much material I am ending up with. Luckily I have lots of room to pile it out of sight. I figure eventually it will be nice compost.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Poopdeck Pappy, I am not so sure that the OP wants to hear that sort of advice. Two of us have already told him more or less the same thing - no response, just responses to others who go along with his thoughts.

BGigHarbor, I am not familiar with the piece of equipment to which you refer, bu am I right in thinking your scarifier is different to my scarifier, and your teeth/points are NOT springloaded or with shearbolts? Broom and blackberries have much smaller roots than the vines which the OP showed in photos. Plain logic is that he has to use something that has more strength than the biggest root he wants to move. I suspect there could be bigger ones than he has shown. Using an underrated implement will cost him a lot of money.

 

[jeff9366]

After a three week dry period rain was forecast for my area. I revised the order of my tasks to make seeding of Fall Deer Food Plots the top priority.

I had about an acre, in two sections, to prepare for seeding, which involved excavating Palmettos and dragging out vine roots. I excavated the Palmetto and vine nodes with a FEL Bucket Spade, then used my box-frame Howse Disc Harrow to cut the ground in two directions. Discing revealed deeper layers of Palmettos, wild climbing rose corms and additional grape vines. Removed deeper Palmettos with the Bucket Spade. Lengths of subsurface vines and rose corms were pulled out pretty well by the Landscape Rake. Then I rough graded the land with a Landscape Rake, seeded with Rackmaster/Pennington Deluxe Fall Deer Mixture and rolled in the seed with a Cultipacker. The rain just started as I finished with the Cultipacker. We had about 2-1/2" of precipitation overnight so the rolled seed should germinate in 3-4 days.

Once the grape vines emerge from the soil and commence to run up the trees, they swell and become woody fast.
In the ground they remain 3/4" - 1" in diameter and smooth. You can see how smooth the disinterred vines are in Photo #2 in Post #1. Some roots are sixty feet long.

In the process of secondary clearing of this small area I hauled maybe two tons of organic debris to the burn pile.

I have been pecking at this project for two years. If I can determine an easier or thorough way to do this work, I am prepared to buy an implement dedicated to vine removal.

I will be back to this thread in a few days. I need to remove a shank from my Rollover Box Blade, measure it and photograph it for this thread. In Post #1 is explained that the rippers are too blunt with the contact faces, too straight to pull easily. While I can pull just three rippers, I am still hoping someone will report a vender for Box Blade rippers that are parabolic shaped, like the rippers on the Hay King Chisel Plow and/or Fred Cain Field Cultivator. I think this would provide the best solution in terms of low cost and functionality.

In a few days I will mount the new-to-me Ford Series 101, 2-14" plow and give it a test at vine surfacing.

I appreciate everyone's input. Grateful for additional ideas.


RACKMASTER/PENNINGTON DELUXE FALL DEER MIXTURE

45% Common Wheat

25% Elbon Rye

20% Coker 227 Oats

5% Crimson Clover

5% Austrian Winter Peas

 

[jeff9366]

The Hay King Renovator looks pretty good, but notice that it has shear bolts on the rippers. If your vines offer enough resistance to start breaking the shear bolts, that could quickly become a PITA to replace shear bolts all the time.

There is no way my dinky B3300SU nor heavier L3560 is going a break a Hay King shear bolt. Hay King equipment is built for the Big-Ag market. I shopped Hay King at the 2012 Southeast Ag Expo in Moultire, Georgia....Hay King builds massive stuff.

The C-3 has the same massive components as their wider Renovators, just fewer shanks.

Should i purchase a C-3, I will ask Hay King to install lighter-than-standard shear bolts, suitable for an L3560.

Rocks are a rarity in my sandy loam. Those rare rocks that turn up are soft Lime Rock.

 

[jeff9366]

Rent a dozer/loader with a root rake. CJ

I am preparing food plots and planting a variety of native wildlife forage trees in the woods, including re-establishing the American Chestnut from purchased, potted, Dunstan Chesnuts. My 60" wide tractor is the maximum width that will work in my conditions. Water Oaks are a common, desirable tree. If the bark and underlying cambium layer of a Water Oak is breached by being hit by a tractor or dozer a Water Oak will not recover; the tree rots inward from the breach and eventually dies.

This is a big job in terms of time required but requires finesse.

http://www.realtreenursery.com/store/c/18-Dunstan-Chestnuts.aspx

 

[CJONE]

I am preparing food plots and planting a variety of native wildlife forage trees in the woods, including re-establishing the American Chestnut from purchased, potted, Dunstan Chesnuts. My 60" wide tractor is the maximum width that will work in my conditions. Water Oaks are a common, desirable tree. If the cambium layer of a Water Oak is breached by being hit by a tractor or dozer, the tree rots inward from the breach and eventually dies.

This is a big job in terms of area but requires finesse.

Dunstan Chestnuts

Gotcha, then I would suggest a mini ex with a thumb, you can get quite good at scarifing roots with them and with the thumb drop them into a trailer to get rid of them. Thanks for the info on the trees, always good to learn from someone who knows! Like was stated your next best bet would be a box with hydraulic retractable scarifiers then clean up with a grapple. CJ