Buying Advice Kubota or Kioti or Mahindra or LS or McCormick????

[TSO]

I don't know much about Shibaura engines, are they of equal stature to Mitsubishi?

Good engines. Have one in my Hustler. Had one in my previous Ford commercial mower. I think they run smoother than my Mitsubishi. Don't know if they're any better or worse tho.

 

[Mike476]

That's interesting because LS went from Mitsubishi engines in their Tier 3 tractors to Shibaura engines in their Tier 4 ones, supposedly because Mitsubishi wanted too much $$ for the new Tier 4 engines.

Seems to be quite a bit of "musical chairs" going on with manufacturers and engine choices. Will be interesting to see how the market share plays out. Obviously everyone is looking to reclaim their investments into the Tier IV design and development, as far as why MF would go with Mitsubishi over Shibaura I can't answer that.

 

[TomSeller]

, as far as why MF would go with Mitsubishi over Shibaura I can't answer that.

If I understood correctly, they went with Mitsubishi over Iseki because Iseki didn't offer T4. According to the prior post.

 

[Mike476]

If I understood correctly, they went with Mitsubishi over Iseki because Iseki didn't offer T4. According to the prior post.

That's true, I'm unsure though why when they had to make the change from Iseki, who I'm told weren't interested in pursuing Tier IV compliance, that they chose Mitsubishi over Shibaura. It seems Shibaura have been around for a while.

History | IHI Shibaura Machinery Corporation

 

[Guesseral]

What I don't understand is the displacement of the Shibaura engine seems less than the Mitsubishi also mush less at the PTO, maybe I just don't understand such things. The switching of engine manufacturers between the different tractors probably has to do with market share, LS leaves Mitsubishi because of cost so Mitsubishi has to make it up somewhere else so they cut there cost to someone else which if they had just given LS a better deal they would still have them. It's just a big game! IMHO.


Ok maybe I said that wrong the LS R4047 has 152.9 cu. in. 47 HP and 41 PTO HP and the XR4046C has 135.2 cu. in 46HP and 37.6 PTO HP. It just doesn't seem to add up in my feeble little mind!

 

[GManBart]

I contacted my local NH dealer today. He claims that the new LS Boomers will use a tier4 Mitsubishi. I also find it very odd that LS would use the Shibaura but NH would stay with Mitsubishi.

I will say tho, the dealer didn't seem all that knowledgeable. It's possible that he is just misinformed. Just doesn't make sense ...

Side note. Dealer quoted me a new tier 3 Boomer 50 HST, 250tl loader w/quick attach, R4, 1 set of remotes ... $26,165 before tax. My identical LS was $21,760 pre tax. Included 2 remotes, draft control, better loader, etc.

The NH website builder/pricing function does show the new models, and specifies the Mitsubishi engine, so it sounds like the dealer was right. Many of the specs appear identical to the current Boomers, but the engine shows less hp, and less PTO hp. I've heard the changes weren't as drastic as some brands?.maybe added a catalytic converter, and that could account for the lower output from the same basic engine (they didn't even change the model code).

Get this?the base price of the tractor went up $5K over the Tier III Boomer 50!

Side note. Dealer quoted me a new tier 3 Boomer 50 HST, 250tl loader w/quick attach, R4, 1 set of remotes ... $26,165 before tax. My identical LS was $21,760 pre tax. Included 2 remotes, draft control, better loader, etc.

Add a second remote ($1K), draft control ($500 going off memory), trailer 7-pin ($1-200), rear work light ($1-200) and we're looking at something like $28K, or nearly $7K more than the matching LS. That's what I described as a "huge" jump in price previously?30%+ is pretty significant in my book for the same basic machine, and I can buy a lot of implements with $7K!

 

[GManBart]

Ok maybe I said that wrong the LS R4047 has 152.9 cu. in. 47 HP and 41 PTO HP and the XR4046C has 135.2 cu. in 46HP and 37.6 PTO HP. It just doesn't seem to add up in my feeble little mind!

It can be a number of factors….the rated RPM, the compression ratio, the valve and camshaft setup, injection system, etc, that makes for significant differences in power output between two engines. Generally speaking, higher compression extracts more power per volume of fuel, which makes for a cleaner burn, and helps emissions, but it increases temperatures and overall stress/strain on the engine. The difference in PTO ratings can be caused by different power curves to the two engines….they don't make the same power, and the same RPM, so when you get the engine down to PTO speed, one can be in a better part of it's power curve than another. Getting all that stuff to line up perfectly can be an engineer's nightmare

 

[houstonscott]

I would rate the Mitsubishi engine S4Q and S4S two of the best Diesel engines in world at those displacements, and applications. Iseki is better know for smaller diesel engines and is superior quality in the below 25 hp applications and has a reputation above Kubota and Yanmar in Japan. Although in marine applications Yanmar is in its own class above all others. While I confess to not knowing details of shibaura diesel engines, they never bubbled to top in my research and I would consider them average. I have seen some articles that makes me think Shibaura may make some Perkins designs under license, if that's true they my be a very good engine. I did a extensive investigation into those Mitsubishi engines before buying a U5030 in 2011, that model is an outstanding tractor at any price. They hit the bulls eye, and that may the best utility tractor you can buy, straight up, at the bottom of class 2 ranks. If you want to break into the bottom of class 2, this is the tractor, the U5030 with S4S. My two cents. HS

 

[TSO]

I would rate the Mitsubishi engine S4Q and S4S two of the best Diesel engines in world at those displacements, and applications. Iseki is better know for smaller diesel engines and is superior quality in the below 25 hp applications and has a reputation above Kubota and Yanmar in Japan. Although in marine applications Yanmar is in its own class above all others. While I confess to not knowing details of shibaura diesel engines, they never bubbled to top in my research and I would consider them average. I have seen some articles that makes me think Shibaura my make some Perkins designs under license, if that's true they my be a very good engine. I did a extensive investigation into those Mitsubishi engines before buying a U5030 in 2011, that model is an outstanding tractor at any price. They hit the bulls eye, and that may the best utility tractor you can buy, straight up, at the bottom of class 2 ranks. If you want to break into the bottom of class 2, this is the tractor, the U5030 with S4S. My two cents. HS

I wonder if an LS built Mitsubishi engine is of similar quality to a Mitsubishi built one? The same question would apply to any of the brands' engines, whether Iseki, Yanmar, Perkins, Cat, etc

 

[houstonscott]

I wonder if an LS built Mitsubishi engine is of similar quality to a Mitsubishi built one? The same question would apply to any of the brands' engines, whether Iseki, Yanmar, Perkins, Cat, etc

While it is suspected that the S4Q is being built under license by LS, the early LS production were not and used Mitsubishi built engines. I don't think the S4S ever has been licensed to LS. It remains a bread and butter jewel in Mitsubishi's line of diesels. HS