At Home In The Woods

[CurlyDave]

Hi, and thanks to everyone for the comments and support. We are exploring our options, but need to have some independents come in and give us their evaluation and plan before we decide what course to take.

Thomas

Another thing to think about is since the surface is that bad, what kind of preparation was done under it? Was the rock under it compacted, is the steel centered in the concrete, is the vapor barrier in place and of the correct thickness, and most important, is there a drainage plan and is that all in place?

Jackhammer and re-pour is the only way to address it if any of the items above are questionable.

Do you have a drawing of what is supposed to be in that floor? There is more to this than a contract that just says "install concrete floor".

 

[Diamondpilot]

There is no way I would accept that floor. That floor needs to be jackhammered out and re-poured. There is a big risk that any leveling compounds will not last the life of the floor and will only make matters worse down the road.

Good Luck,
Kevin

I agree. That is the worst job I have seen. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could have done better.

Chris

 

[kiotiken]

Hi Obed,

Thanks, I appreciate it. Our contractor is gping to meet us to look at it tomorrow afternoon, and some outside opinions would be helpful.

Thomas

What a headache, sorry you have to deal with it. Having worked as a carpenter framing houses and building additions in a different life (high school and university, a long time ago), I can tell you the floor isn't the only issue. The window isn't framed properly at all, there should be a jack stud with a king stud on each side of it not to mention a lentil over top (header), even if it's on the gable end. The concrete seems to be poured around the 2X6 studs which is a big no no, the general rule is concrete and wood should never touch, concrete will continue to wick moisture and rot the wood over time. It looks like a pole barn design with 2X6 framing and you just can't do that, the studs need to be framed 16" on center to do it the way this way. If there is a 12' ceiling, there needs to be cross braces between the studs about half way up, the strapping doesn't count. I'm no building inspector or engineer, but I think you'd be very wise to hire an inspector and possible an engineer depending on what he says. I know it's just a barn, but I wouldn't want to be inside it in a stiff breeze.

The floor's gotta go, but that may be the easy part. Good luck.

 

[patrick_g]

What a headache, sorry you have to deal with it. Having worked as a carpenter framing houses and building additions in a different life (high school and university, a long time ago), I can tell you the floor isn't the only issue. The window isn't framed properly at all, there should be a jack stud with a king stud on each side of it not to mention a lentil over top (header), even if it's on the gable end. The concrete seems to be poured around the 2X6 studs which is a big no no, the general rule is concrete and wood should never touch, concrete will continue to wick moisture and rot the wood over time. It looks like a pole barn design with 2X6 framing and you just can't do that, the studs need to be framed 16" on center to do it the way this way. If there is a 12' ceiling, there needs to be cross braces between the studs about half way up, the strapping doesn't count. I'm no building inspector or engineer, but I think you'd be very wise to hire an inspector and possible an engineer depending on what he says. I know it's just a barn, but I wouldn't want to be inside it in a stiff breeze.

The floor's gotta go, but that may be the easy part. Good luck.

Yuch!! No concrete-wood contact. A very very bad idea. You need to bite the bullet and put your foot down hard.

I sympathize with Obed! You want to get into a house. Don't let your enthusiasm permit very wasteful haste. I have a general idea what your situation has been and is. We lived on our sailboat for 9 years with a bit less space than a 25 ft travel trailer and both had 40 Hr a week day jobs. We lived in a slide-in pickup camper for 9 months with the camper off the ttuck and sitting on the floor of a barn while we got a house ready for my mom. We then lived with her (interesting dynamics) while building our current (hopefully last) home. It wasn't a slam bam thanks mam job. We hired a good young general contractor who sanity checked my design as we went. We only made a coople minor oops which I fixed ending up better than had the mistake not been made. We had a couple near disasters and some actual small ones.

Basement guest room has cast concrete walls. Insufficient bracing of steel door frame and concrete squeezed it in a bit so the door could not fit. This after the cement contractor made fun of another contractor doing some ICF for the master suite and the door to that part of the house had to be hydraulic carbide chainsawn out and recast qs the door would not fit. The basement solution was a custom door to fit the hole.

These were about the worst oops we had. Lots of other stuff went OK but... Well the 5 each 200 ft wells for the geo-thermal system are out there somewhere and are interconnected with horizontal pipes but NO ONE knows where! The guy good at drawing maps didn't come that day and I was not there! I get pretty nervous when doing tractor-dirt work. There are those little things like a 3way switch at the top of the basement stairs to illuminate the steps for safety. NO one can find the location of the other switch. I rewired the known switch to be a regular switch. Best bet? Sheetrock guys didn't cut out around the j-box wherever it masy have been. I have other mystery wires too and a duct fan inside a wall with romex wiriing to it but no clue where the other end of the wires are or how to power up the fan.

Misery loves company. I expected a few little irregularities when building a three level home with over 5000 sq ft of living space plus an attached wood shop, attached metal working/welding shop and an attached 3 car garage and I got them.

For a more modest project like your's you are having way too much trouble.

If you don't insist things be put right you will always regret the short sighted decision to just get on with it. Stick to your guns and insist on getting stuff right.

Good luck to you,

Patrick

 

[clemsonfor]

WOW, yea i agree, i have low spots in my sheds, but you need water to find them, like getting them wet and seeing where the slow evaporating puddles are!!!

Yours is a joke!!!!

That guy was paid! Did he just pour run a 2x4 across the top and leave? He could not have floated it!!! I think i could have donee a better job and i never done it.

 

[Beltman60]

to me it doesn't look floated either :mur:

 

[jdonovan]

looks like it was screeded... poorly, and that was it for finishing. Even when we screed we get a better level than that.

And at that it looks like the screed couldn't even reach the form edge which might explain some of the ridges in the floor.

 

[Obed]

Thomas,
I'm very sorry about your concrete job. I would have never imagined you would be able to show the leveling issues in a picture. The general contractor must have hired out the work to a concrete sub and made no attempt to verify the sub's quality of work. You can bet that was the lowest bid for the concrete job.

I would have a very difficult job living with that job. 25 years ago, I helped an uncle one weekend. He would put some type of covering over concrete floors in existing commercial buildings. I have no idea what the stuff was made of but it bound to the concrete real well. I bet the stuff would level low spots.

I have to believe there are products these days that will cover concrete and level them and hold up well. That's what I would try. A 3" pad on top has the issues of being higher than bottom plates of the walls which would make me uncomfortable. Jackhammering the pad and starting over is unlikely to realistically happen.

Obed

 

[PhysAssist]

Well hi Obed and all,

Thank you all for the support and concern. I have been reading along as posts came in and initially I was taken aback and very outraged at having been so poorly served by a contractor who had always previously treated us very well. I was angry at being taken advantage of when all I wanted was to get my barn ready for moving in my shop equipment and tools. I called our lawyer, who advised me to contact the town's building inspector as an independent and impartial opinion and observer.

We eventually had both the original contractor, and our town's building/code inspector (CEO) up separately to look at the floor, and while they did see the uneveness, they both independently measured it in several areas using both long and short levels (3' & 6' I think) and again independently came up with a measurement of something like <3/16" variation over 6', which the CEO assured us was to code and a very normal amd reasonable amount of variation. What they figured caused the wavy appearance was the combination of a very low and very bright (1000 watt halogen) light source and incompletely cured concrete (because of the cold weather in the weeks since it was poored).

Nonetheless, the contractor waived the $175 we still owed him for supplemental concrete needed to finish the pour because he felt that as repeat customers, who have referred others to him (he did the pad fill and grading for our building site and did an excellent job relatively inexpensively), he wanted us to be completely happy and satisfied.

BTW, it turns out that the floor WAS power-floated and ironically some part of the visible "gradient markings" were swirls left over from that.

We have since powerswept the floor, washed it, and sealed it with Foundation Armour S2000 penetrating Concrete Sealer and Radon reducer. There were a few very minor areas of pooling when the floor was wet, but nothing that was out of the ordinary or dramatic.

Thanks again for all the thought and concern expressed on our behalf.

Thomas.

Thomas,
I'm very sorry about your concrete job. I would have never imagined you would be able to show the leveling issues in a picture. The general contractor must have hired out the work to a concrete sub and made no attempt to verify the sub's quality of work. You can bet that was the lowest bid for the concrete job.

I would have a very difficult job living with that job. 25 years ago, I helped an uncle one weekend. He would put some type of covering over concrete floors in existing commercial buildings. I have no idea what the stuff was made of but it bound to the concrete real well. I bet the stuff would level low spots.

I have to believe there are products these days that will cover concrete and level them and hold up well. That's what I would try. A 3" pad on top has the issues of being higher than bottom plates of the walls which would make me uncomfortable. Jackhammering the pad and starting over is unlikely to realistically happen.

Obed

 

[Depmandog]

Well hi Obed and all, Thank you all for the support and concern. I have been reading along as posts came in and initially I was taken aback and very outraged at having been so poorly served by a contractor who had always previously treated us very well. I was angry at being taken advantage of when all I wanted was to get my barn ready for moving in my shop equipment and tools. I called our lawyer, who advised me to contact the town's building inspector as an independent and impartial opinion and observer. We eventually had both the original contractor, and our town's building/code inspector (CEO) up separately to look at the floor, and while they did see the uneveness, they both independently measured it in several areas using both long and short levels (3' & 6' I think) and again independently came up with a measurement of something like <3/16" variation over 6', which the CEO assured us was to code and a very normal amd reasonable amount of variation. What they figured caused the wavy appearance was the combination of a very low and very bright (1000 watt halogen) light source and incompletely cured concrete (because of the cold weather in the weeks since it was poored). Nonetheless, the contractor waived the $175 we still owed him for supplemental concrete needed to finish the pour because he felt that as repeat customers, who have referred others to him (he did the pad fill and grading for our building site and did an excellent job relatively inexpensively), he wanted us to be completely happy and satisfied. BTW, it turns out that the floor WAS power-floated and ironically some part of the visible "gradient markings" were swirls left over from that. We have since powerswept the floor, washed it, and sealed it with Foundation Armour S2000 penetrating Concrete Sealer and Radon reducer. There were a few very minor areas of pooling when the floor was wet, but nothing that was out of the ordinary or dramatic. Thanks again for all the thought and concern expressed on our behalf. Thomas.

Pictures can be very deceiving! As long as you are satisfied then ALL IS GOOD!!

Now fill that shop up and start using it!