JD 1050 hydraulics problem

[mikedn@cox.net]

Had my deere (2wd 1050 w/75 loader and backhoe 8, no power steering) in for some electrical work last month, and while there had the hydraulics serviced - replace filter, clean screen, new fluid, etc.

While unit was there, had bucket off (universal attach plate) so when they tested hydraulics everything ran fine, and ran fine when I got it home. When I Got the unit home, i had it sitting for a month (didn't need to use it) and (as these things always tend to work out) went to use it last week and discovered a problem.

Basically, issue is that the hydraulics work great, as long as there is no load on the system.

The Loader worked great, until I attached the bucket back up, and now I can barely get the loader to raise. If I max the throttle, the bucket will eventually raise, but it chatters (or staggers, raises a little, stops, raises a little, stops, etc) as it is going up. While doing so, there is a groaning or grinding sound which I cannot specifically pinpoint (as the throttle is maxed and the engine drones it out). Haven't run it too long like this, don't like the sound and don't want to damage anything.

With the backhoe, I can put the stabilizers down, until they hit the ground, then they will raise the rear end of the tractor, but I get that same noise. Retracting the stabilizers will likewise create the noise.

There do not appear to be any leaks - I can leave the bucket up for several days and it will hold pressure. I checked the fluid, looks nice and fresh, not contaminated in any way. The fluid level did look a little low, was in the bottom fourth of the dipstick with all the cylinders let down, so I added a couple of quarts today to bring it into the top 1/4th, but it did not have any noticeable impact. No hoses appear crimped to impede flow, and since the problem affects both ends of the tractor I would think it is something systemic rather than specifically related to just the loader or just the backhoe.

Googled around, found a couple of similar posts but no real resolution.

Looking for ideas, prefer not to have to load it back on the equipment trailer and haul it back to the service center unless I absolutely have to. Suspect the hydraulic pump, but given the price prefer not to swap it out if I don't have to.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[slider909]

Could be air in the system. If they drained all the hydraulic fluid out, air got into the system.

 

[Tx Jim]

Check to be sure all hyd quick disconnects are seated properly.

 

[Barry 1]

How cold is it? The hydraulics will barely work on mine,if it gets down in the 20s or lower.Been that way since new.They had an optional transmission oil heater(NLA) for a reason,and now you know why.It helps if you insulated the steel lines from the pump to the trans,and I usually remove the optional spin on filter and housing for the winter,and bypass it.Even if you heat the oil,it will get cold while plowing snow and stop working ,if it's too cold out.
You can heat the oil by lowering the 3 point hitch,screw in the stop valve below the front of the seat,then raise the 3 point lever.Leave it sit there and run at half throttle until the steel line from the pump is good and warm,open the stop valve back up,and you are good to go.Had to do this for 30 years.It sends the hydraulic fluid through the pressure relief valve,which causes the oil to heat.This is the procedure described in the service manual,to heat the oil before you do any testing.

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Could be air in the system. If they drained all the hydraulic fluid out, air got into the system.

well since they replaced the filter, replaced all the fluid and cleaned the screen, I'm sure there is air in there. All I'll say here is in the years past I've had to have the cylinders on the loader rebuilt, and the steel hydraulic lines on the frame of the bucket replaced with hydraulic lines as my steel lines developed pin-hole leaks and JD doesn't make those lines any longer, and when I got the tractor back, I didn't have similar issues, I would think a similar amount of air got into the system at that point...

Is there a specific bleed process to cycle out the air, or will it naturally do it by itself? If I pull the bucket off I can raise/lower/tilt the loader w/o any issues, it just seems to be an issue when there is any type of heavy load placed on the hydraulic system.

Check to be sure all hyd quick disconnects are seated properly.

Did this already, didn't find any issue here. Everything is seated good and there are no leaks.

How cold is it?

Hasn't been particularly cold... was mid 40's yesterday, but I've worked on the tractor w/ this issue when the temps have been in the mid 50's... I'm near the ocean, so its been pretty mild here. Your tip is a good one though, if I run into a problem in the dead of winter... over years past, I haven't had any issue plowing snow with it.

 

[Barry 1]

Shouldn't need to bleed anything.I wonder if they used the right filter? It is on the suction line.Could be the pump is getting weak? Mine has over 5000 hours on it,and the pump is getting a little weak,won't lift as much as it used to.

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Shouldn't need to bleed anything. I wonder if they used the right filter? It is on the suction line.Could be the pump is getting weak? Mine has over 5000 hours on it,and the pump is getting a little weak,won't lift as much as it used to.

I'll try to check the filter part number tonight when I get home... unfortunately with the days so short now, I leave before daylight, and I usually don't get home until after daylight has disappeared, so working in the dark is problematic and I usually can only troubleshoot on weekends when I have more daylight. Old eyes.


Is it possible to put the circular filter screen in the wrong way? Hate to crack it open to check on it and have to replace all the fluid, to the tune of ~$150, again...

Trying to think of other possibilities....

 

[Tx Jim]

Filter screen is CH13395 and hyd filter is TY9425E

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Well, things progressed from bad to worse. No hydraulic action at all today. Loader wouldn't budge. stabilizer arms on the backhoe will go down, but not up.

Correct filter is installed. Was a little cold today, so did the oil heat thing, no effect. Guess I'm going to have to trailer it back to the service center at this point, because I have no idea.

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Okay, I messed up...

After a winter of not being able to use my tractor, I decided to break down and work on my hydraulics again. My tractor spent most if it's adult life right on the ocean so the serial number plate is completely oxidized and unreadable. It appeared to be higher than 11001

I decided to replace the hydraulic pump, given the age, and the pump appeared original. I went to the deere web site and using the online parts catalog, I ordered an 11cfm pump, which was part number CH13990. I also ordered a new gasket.

I received the pump, and discovered it is the wrong pump. Apparently I needed pump CH15662 as it seems my serial number is under 11001. I know this now because the pump I took off the tractor uses a shaft key to hold an adapter in place which is then inserted into the engine to drive the pump. The pump I received has a grooved shaft which doesn't need a spline.

Upon further investigation on JDParts it appears both CH15662 and CH13990 use the same adapter, CH13991.

So I need to order a CH13991 adapter... But... Here is my real question... Does anyone know if I can use the CH13990 pump for +11001 serial numbered machines on my pre-11001 tractor, rather than returning it, incurring a restocking fee due to my error, and then buy a CH15662?

 

[Barry 1]

The early ones came with a 9cc pump(CH11272) with key and nut to hold adapter on.That CH15662 is NLA . If you look under sectional in the parts,the second pump#94 is a CH13990 (11cc) same as the one used on all newer tractors 11001- It shows it for the 11001- but you don't have any other choice but to get the adapter and see if it will work,or go back with the 9cc pump.I would think it will work.
Looks like if you get the CH13991 adapter and the CH13992 snapring you will be in business.
My early model had the 9cc pump,until I had the dealer installed power steering added,with the 11cc pump upgrade.

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

The early ones came with a 9cc pump(CH11272) with key and nut to hold adapter on.That CH15662 is NLA . If you look under sectional in the parts,the second pump#94 is a CH13990 (11cc) same as the one used on all newer tractors 11001-
Looks like if you get the CH13991 adapter and the CH13992 snapring you will be in business.
My early model had the 9cc pump,until I had the dealer installed power steering added,with the 11cc pump upgrade.

welp... i went out to the barn and dug the old pump out... I see a problem right off the bat... The old pump mounts to four bolts on the engine which extend out about 2 inches from the block.

The new pump's flange will allow it to mount to the two engine bolts, but the other two bolts are too short to pass thru the pump housing.

How difficult is it to remove the engine bolts and replace them with two longer grade 8 bolts?

 

[Barry 1]

Hard to say.Put 2 nuts on one of them(Metric) tighten them together real tight,then try to unscrew it with a wrench on the inner nut.If that won't do it,it's vice grip time,and hope they aren't froze up. Parts shows that both early and late use those studs,but late model only uses 2,and 2 -CH19093 bolts(M8X100)
Looks like everything else is the same,even the gear that the pump sticks into is the same(CH10237)

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

yeah... more afraid of snapping them off than anything else... then I'd have to haul the tractor somewhere and have the front end disassembled and drilled out.

 

[Barry 1]

Did you take your old pump apart to see if anything is wrong with it? You might have something else wrong,like a stuck open pressure relief valve?

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Did you take your old pump apart to see if anything is wrong with it? You might have something else wrong,like a stuck open pressure relief valve?

Didn't disassemble the pump, I have an older 9cc pump and wanted to upgrade to the 11cc pump anyway. I previously had checked all my connections for leaks, and the relief valve, and nothing appears remiss there.... just get the chattering any time I place a load on the hydraulic system. Hydraulic system has, in the past, squealed under load, so I figure replacing the pump was a good start. Just strange that the problems happened after my mechanic removed the screen to clean it and replace all the hydraulic fluid and filter.

I loaded up the studs coming out of the engine in the engine w/ PB Blaster, I'll let it sit a few hours and see if I back them out w/o snapping them off. that would really, really suck. They look like they're in pretty decent shape though.

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Mission successful. Studs extracted. Additional parts ordered from Deere... now to wait another week till the parts show up....

 

[mikedn@cox.net]

Hate to revive one of my old threads, but I find myself in a pickle once again on my hydraulics.

Over the summer since my last post, I did replace my existing hydraulic pump with the new high capacity pump. This had a good (but not great) effect... My hydraulics worked, but still chattered slightly under load. I used the deere a few times over the summer to move some rocks and use the backhoe without difficulty, although not as great as it once was (pre service).

Life happened, and as life goes, the deere sat unused for several months as other priorities came to the forefront of my existence.

Well, living in new England, we're now slated to get a major nor'easter, so I thought I would move the deere into a location where I can use the loader to plow out the driveway (since the loader was working, for the most part, after the pump replacement).

murphy's law dictates naturally that the hydraulics are once again not working.

Today's symptoms: liquid appears milky but not milky contaminated, more milky from tons of micro-bubbles in the fluid. I have no lift whatsoever. In fact, I can take the bucket off my quick mount and physically move the pistons in and out of the cylinders by hand. Attempted to warm the fluid by lowering the 3-point after shutting the valve under the seat... no effect, no hoses got warm. Fluid level on dipstick does, though, appear full/normal. Backhoe inoperable as well. Disconnected backhoe from hydraulic system, no improvement.

Any thoughts on where I go from here now? I hate to arbitrarily replace the fluid, since the Hygard low viscosity will run me ~150 for the 6 gallons I need to refill the system if I drain it... but if I must, I must.

I'm not overly mechanically inclined when it comes to hydraulics on a tractor, so be gentle with me

Thanks, Mike

 

[PHIL850]

sounds like your pump is sucking air. I would check your return lines to the pump (suction side)

 

[beenthere]

I'm curious how you managed the nor'easter when it came, and piled on since then too. ??