Is Full Time Use of 4WD a Problem?

[dragoneggs]

No FEL on the front is the key to your write-up (good stuff BTW). Add the weight of a FEL bucket full or empty and it all changes! I know, have killed a front-end...

But of course the Kubota engineers did design the front drivetrain to accommodate the FEL anyways. One very big reason the Kubota's are so popular is because of very good engineering.

 

[DarkBlack]

You can't just assume the loader's going to cause any issues without knowing what's hanging off the 3PH, or rear loaded tires etc.

 

[wmonroe]

No FEL on the front is the key to your write-up (good stuff BTW). Add the weight of a FEL bucket full or empty and it all changes! I know, have killed a front-end...

What happened to the front end you killed? Did you attribute it to being in 4wd?

 

[Bluegill2]

What happened to the front end you killed? Did you attribute it to being in 4wd?

Older L3750, built like a tank. Striped the splines off the pinion gear. Backing out of a hole with a bucket full and no counter weight on the 3 pt. Back tires had no traction, most of the weight was on the front axle and it was doing all the pulling. 1000 lbs or so on the 3 pt and this would not have happened.

 

[wmonroe]

Older L3750, built like a tank. Striped the splines off the pinion gear. Backing out of a hole with a bucket full and no counter weight on the 3 pt. Back tires had no traction, most of the weight was on the front axle and it was doing all the pulling. 1000 lbs or so on the 3 pt and this would not have happened.

Interesting, there just doesn't seem to be many failures like this on these boards. I've always heard that on trucks it is better to pull going forward as opposed to pulling in reverse (if that makes sense). However I've done a lot of pulling in reverse whether it is pulling or backing out of somewhere with a bucket load like you mentioned.

 

[MHarryE]

Very clear explanation MHarryE. In regards to the auto position, does it disengage when turning at the end of the field or is it some sort of variable speed so it doesn't bind up?? I know Kubota uses the variable speed thing on their larger tractors. Not sure who else does.

In auto it stays in 4wd all the time even in turns until your ground speed exceeds 11.8 mph. Scrubbing in corners is less significant than wheel slippage. Since did King is kind of boring I find little things to do to keep my mind occupied. One was to measure a 200 yard distance on a field, mark a rear tire so I could count revolutions. In 2wd it took 20% more revolutions to travel the same distance than with the fronts engaged. Talk about something that will suck money out of your wallet both in terms of fuel usage and tire wear. Think of how long the tires on your pickup would last if they were slipping 20%.

I picked John Deere sales information to quote from because it was easy to find, free, and JD is the largest ag company in the world (by $$$ volume). If they state something like hat and it's wrong, they do end up paying through the nose.

And I do say 4wd here although I am really referring to MFWD or Mechanical Front Wheel Drive. The true 4 wheel drives are the articulated big boys (although in some countries they have articulated small tractors). They are all full time 4 wheel drive and have no differential between front and rear. Not needed ad long as your tire sizes are all the same and the articulation point is exactly half way between the front and rear axles. My nephew has 3 of them and I sometimes drive for him when he needs help. A large 8wd (duals everywhere) is kind of a dream for the first disking of a plowed field.

Up here my pickup stays in 4wd on all but dry asphalt during our winters. The gravel roads are always icy and I tend to s
IDE into the ditch on corners without the fronts to help. Same with our 2 cars - one is rear wheel drive which gives no choice but the other is all wheel drive which is a dream in Minnesota ice.

So do I have 2wd experience? I grew up that way. My dad first had me raking hay when I was too small to reach the pedals. He taught me how to start in gear and press the switch to turn off our Farmall A when I was finished raking. Times change, and I was fortunate enough to become a mechanical engineer and work on power trains throughout my career, then return to farming to use the equipment I helped develop so many years ago.

 

[Bluegill2]

Interesting, there just doesn't seem to be many failures like this on these boards. I've always heard that on trucks it is better to pull going forward as opposed to pulling in reverse (if that makes sense). However I've done a lot of pulling in reverse whether it is pulling or backing out of somewhere with a bucket load like you mentioned.

Pulling in reverse usually takes weight off the rear, where pulling forward puts it on the rear.

When backing up hill with a bucket load most of the total weight of the tractor and load is on the front axle and the rear has no traction. I only do this when I can't go forward. The front axle isn't large or strong enough to carry the whole load.

Now on the old L3750, it had seen a lot of hours of loader work in 4wd with no counter weight on the 3 pt. So the front axle showed a lot of wear. The drive shaft and couplers were sloppy lose. The center pivot bushings were shot. The bevel gear housings, bearings, seals were all shot. $1200 in parts.

 

[ovrszd]

In auto it stays in 4wd all the time even in turns until your ground speed exceeds 11.8 mph. Scrubbing in corners is less significant than wheel slippage. Since did King is kind of boring I find little things to do to keep my mind occupied. One was to measure a 200 yard distance on a field, mark a rear tire so I could count revolutions. In 2wd it took 20% more revolutions to travel the same distance than with the fronts engaged. Talk about something that will suck money out of your wallet both in terms of fuel usage and tire wear. Think of how long the tires on your pickup would last if they were slipping 20%.

I picked John Deere sales information to quote from because it was easy to find, free, and JD is the largest ag company in the world (by $$$ volume). If they state something like hat and it's wrong, they do end up paying through the nose.

And I do say 4wd here although I am really referring to MFWD or Mechanical Front Wheel Drive. The true 4 wheel drives are the articulated big boys (although in some countries they have articulated small tractors). They are all full time 4 wheel drive and have no differential between front and rear. Not needed ad long as your tire sizes are all the same and the articulation point is exactly half way between the front and rear axles. My nephew has 3 of them and I sometimes drive for him when he needs help. A large 8wd (duals everywhere) is kind of a dream for the first disking of a plowed field.

Up here my pickup stays in 4wd on all but dry asphalt during our winters. The gravel roads are always icy and I tend to s
IDE into the ditch on corners without the fronts to help. Same with our 2 cars - one is rear wheel drive which gives no choice but the other is all wheel drive which is a dream in Minnesota ice.

So do I have 2wd experience? I grew up that way. My dad first had me raking hay when I was too small to reach the pedals. He taught me how to start in gear and press the switch to turn off our Farmall A when I was finished raking. Times change, and I was fortunate enough to become a mechanical engineer and work on power trains throughout my career, then return to farming to use the equipment I helped develop so many years ago.

Great story. I totally agree with the differences in 4wd/2wd when doing heavy tillage. All large farmers here use FWA or 4WD tractors.

Excellent description of the difference in 4wd and MFWD. Rarely do we see operators on this forum that have true 4WD so the differences are most times overlooked and misquoted.

Being a little farther South our roads don't stay ice covered all Winter. But in the Fall I spin the front hubs in on the Super Duty and don't spin em out until Spring.

When I was 7 I started driving the tractor pulling a small square hay baler pulling a wagon with Dad on the wagon. He'd tie me in the seat with baler twine so I wouldn't accidentally fall off the little Ford tractor. People would call that child abuse today. Never hurt me a bit.

I , ike you, was pulled away from the farm for 40 years with the Military. Now I maintain that same farm that I learned to drive a tractor on. Blessed aren't we...

 

[ovrszd]

Now on the old L3750, it had seen a lot of hours of loader work in 4wd with no counter weight on the 3 pt. So the front axle showed a lot of wear. The drive shaft and couplers were sloppy lose. The center pivot bushings were shot. The bevel gear housings, bearings, seals were all shot. $1200 in parts.

I think this is where we here on TBN lack in understanding. Few users will put thousands of hours of use on their FEL tractors. Even fewer will put those hours on doing heavy FEL work. Most of us only ocassionally put heavy loads on our tractors. Even fewer of us do it over a lengthy period of time/hours.

With that said, if you are one of those rare users here that does heavy work for a long period of time, you better manage your time in 4wd wisely and not waste that minimal wear while putting down the open trail from point A to point B. You are gonna need that later.

 

[TomSeller]

Now on the old L3750, it had seen a lot of hours of loader work in 4wd with no counter weight on the 3 pt. So the front axle showed a lot of wear. The drive shaft and couplers were sloppy lose. The center pivot bushings were shot. The bevel gear housings, bearings, seals were all shot. $1200 in parts.

If it had been used heavily to the point it was teetering with the entire FEL load + tractor on the front axle, it is amazing how much even a 500 lb box blade on the 3pt can reduce the weight on the front axle.