FEL coming loose @ bracket

[DK35vince]

Can a Massey or Ford be used in construction for something besides material placement or removal? Are there contractor versions made for all around duty? For instance, would it be anticipated that a tractor used by an asphalt or concrete tractor be used to break-up an ac driveway or a concrete walkway? Would you anticipate that the contractor would use another piece of equipment? Would one forgo a tractor and get a BOBCAT for such tasks?

I work for a construction paving company.
We use skid steers for that type of work.
Skid steers are heavier duty built commercial grade machines that are better designed for that type of work.
Stronger, heavier duty and much more maneuverable than a tractor. A skid steer will work circles around a tractor for that type of work, and hold up to it better.

 

[whis]

not to be mean, some people can break an anvil with a rubber hammer, without seeing you operate the tractor its hard to say if you are abusing it or not. where i use to work we had 7040 with a grapple doing tree service work and never had a problem with anything on the loader doing lots of work that should of had a bigger machine

 

[Grandad4]

What is the torque?

Thanks

In your first post you said you're torqueing the loader mounts to 105-110 ft-lbs. That's how much you tighten the lug nuts on a small car and it's not anywhere near enough to secure a tractor's loader mounts. That may be the one reason you've had the damage to the bolts and threads. Dealer mechanic should have spotted that. I don't have the shop manual in front of me now, but we've always used a 550 ft-lb impact wrench, per the dealer's instructions when we bought our equipment, and we periodically make sure everything is well tightened down.

As for digging vs. loading use, a bit of common sense goes a long way. You do need some weight in the tires and/or on the 3 pt. for traction and balance. These tractors can do some respectable digging and it should readily be able to do your orange grove work, for example, although a backhoe attachment would probably get the job done easier, quicker and make less of a mess. Adding a toothbar helps a lot with digging chores, but I don't know if one can fit on your "clamshell" type bucket.

 

[ovrszd]

I think the hardest job I do with my front loaders is moving bulk materials -- stone, gravel, fill dirt, and top soil. In those cases, I nose into the pile with the bucket about level with a good amount of throttle, in 4WD and normally low range, and then curl the bucket back when I start to feel resistance. Occasionally, I will scrape off a few inches of topsoil or pop out a rotten stump. To me, that is about as much "pushing" as we should do with a front loader based on what's recommended in the manual and practices discussed here. They are primarily designed for scooping and lifting where the resistance is from weight (i.e., vertical). Front loader arms and mounts are not beefed up for pushing like a dozer, and not even close to handling the digging leverage of a backhoe (just look at backhoe arms, pins, and bolts for comparison).

ishiboo did a good job summarizing things.

I'd say you are in the mainstream of use by operators here on TBN. But I'd say you are on the light end of what the tractor/FEL is capable of doing.

As someone else said, it's hard to judge an operator's methods from here. Have to see him in operation before we could clearly say he's abusing his FEL.

I use a Grapple 90% of the time. Grabbing, dragging, pushing loads that exceed the loader's lift capability. Often I have 1200lbs of 3pt ballast plus loaded rears plus cast weights and still have the rear tires off the ground. I don't consider myself abusive. But in your eyes I probably am. In your eyes you probably would consider any operators use as abusive if he has a toothbar, Grapple, Tree Puller or a variety of other FEL attachments. A lot of those put pressures on the FEL frame beyond what you have described as exceptable.

 

[k0ua]

I'd say you are in the mainstream of use by operators here on TBN. But I'd say you are on the light end of what the tractor/FEL is capable of doing.

As someone else said, it's hard to judge an operator's methods from here. Have to see him in operation before we could clearly say he's abusing his FEL.

I use a Grapple 90% of the time. Grabbing, dragging, pushing loads that exceed the loader's lift capability. Often I have 1200lbs of 3pt ballast plus loaded rears plus cast weights and still have the rear tires off the ground. I don't consider myself abusive. But in your eyes I probably am. In your eyes you probably would consider any operators use as abusive if he has a toothbar, Grapple, Tree Puller or a variety of other FEL attachments. A lot of those put pressures on the FEL frame beyond what you have described as exceptable.

Richard I guess you and I expect a lot more out of our loaders than the "average" FEL user. Like you I use it to its maximum capabilitys and have loaded tires and 850 lbs on the 3pt. If I am not taking the loader to relief, than I am not working. But I do certainly check the loader bolts often.

 

[ovrszd]

But I do certainly check the loader bolts often.

Yep, me too. Although I've never found one loose.

I always just pull all I can on a long breaker bar. But, I just now looked at my loader manual. My frame mount bolts torque to 271 ft/lbs.

 

[LD1]

Maybe I missed this but did you buy new or used??

And how many hours on the machine?

Like someone already mentioned, it states in the manual that you need to check them every so often. I did on my for the first few hundred hours. ANd they were always looser than the previous time I tightened them. So they do work loose and need re torqued.

Not pointing the finger at you, cause I dont have all of the details. But on the surface, the tone of this thread is going the direction of: not changing the oil for 400 hours and it is supposed to be done at 50, and now the motor is trashed.....

Again, not pointing the finger. But it dont matter if it is a case, massey, deere, etc. It wouldnt have made a difference in your case. And it also dont go well when you start talking like this

I wonder if Case or Massey would've fared better. I probably won't buy another Kubota as they are too light duty.

 

[k0ua]

Yep, me too. Although I've never found one loose.

I always just pull all I can on a long breaker bar. But, I just now looked at my loader manual. My frame mount bolts torque to 271 ft/lbs.

That is way more than my torque wrench will go to... get out the big cheater bar.!

 

[batwing]

I bought our tractor with loader to help dig a pond, sounds like I better be carful how I use it!! maybe I should have put a loader on the 165 Massey.

 

[DK35vince]

I bought our tractor with loader to help dig a pond, sounds like I better be carful how I use it!! maybe I should have put a loader on the 165 Massey.

You could put a loader on the Massey.
But you would still need to check the loader mounting bolts on occasion to make sure they stay tight or the same thing could happen to it.
No difference.
Keep an eye on the mounting bolts. Standard maintenance.

 

[ishiboo]

I'd say you are in the mainstream of use by operators here on TBN. But I'd say you are on the light end of what the tractor/FEL is capable of doing.

As someone else said, it's hard to judge an operator's methods from here. Have to see him in operation before we could clearly say he's abusing his FEL.

I use a Grapple 90% of the time. Grabbing, dragging, pushing loads that exceed the loader's lift capability. Often I have 1200lbs of 3pt ballast plus loaded rears plus cast weights and still have the rear tires off the ground. I don't consider myself abusive. But in your eyes I probably am. In your eyes you probably would consider any operators use as abusive if he has a toothbar, Grapple, Tree Puller or a variety of other FEL attachments. A lot of those put pressures on the FEL frame beyond what you have described as exceptable.

Capable and designed for are two different things. The point is going beyond what it is designed to do on a regular basis, checking the bolts as it says in the manual is pretty necessary Ballast/loaded tires/etc. makes the job easier on the tractor, not harder (up to a certain point)… the FEL frame is protected in the direction of loading/grabbing/etc. by the relief valves. The protection for pushing/pulling is only based on the traction available, and while the loaded tires/weight increases that, they are also prescribed in the manual for proper loader operation.

 

[psient]

IshiBoo:

OK. So doing lifting and just keeping the bolts tight. That's it.

For digging you need either a back hoe attachment or an excavator yes? For heavy work such as orange tree removal you need a tractor that has the loader integral with the body rather than an attachment bracket?

 

[psient]

Grandad4:

Thanks. I will call the dealer when I consider myself ignorant. This is the case here concerning the amount of torque I used. I have checked with the dealer each step of the way.

However, I assumed the tractor could remove trees.

At first I wasn't as skilled using the rams and no doubt that accelerated the original loosening issue. However, having a good friend whose business is tractors watch me helped get me used to the rams and practice left me able to control how hard they were used. I'm not as good as someone who uses the bucket and tractor every day. I do use it constantly and so have something like skill.

I try to think-through what I'm about to do when digging. For instance, when I dig I line up the plane of the bucket blade with the thrusting force of the tractor as best as I can. In other words I try not to put the bucket in the position where the force is lateral. I wait until the soil is moist and somewhat yielding. I try to sheer off a slice of dirt rather than scoop out a whole, working progressively backwards and deeper. When back dragging I determine the amount of material I have to spread and progressively build up to the grade and level I am trying to achieve.

I guess I was confused about what this type of tractor could accomplish. I can't have a fleet of equipment. I'm not a homesteader. So I'll work on what I have to do. It doesn't sound like many of you are in my situation, that is horse-ranch livestock agriculture+grove+CSA ownership. Thanks for the advice so far!

I hope I have a fair comprehension of what you guys are telling me.

 

[psient]

K0ua & Ovrszd:

I have water in the tires as per user manual but don't have weights. What form of breaker bar are you referring to? I'll search the forums but it'd help me to know what the procedure is please.

 

[psient]

:wave:

Maybe I missed this but did you buy new or used??

And how many hours on the machine?

I purchased the machine new in 2007 along with the loader, clamshell, a grading drag with tines, a land pride rototiller, a 5 year warranty on the tractor and a 3 year warranty on the loader. I have had no warranty issues. I change the engine oil and transmission oil & filters per schedule (as I mentioned I just did the 400 hour transmission service using Super UDT). I check my fluids and grease the tractor every 10hrs of operation on the meter.

Not stereotyping you either but::cowboy:

I guess attention to detail comes from riding horses for 20 years then deciding to start college at 44, getting my PhD, and doing research on human thinking and personality. Gotta be detailed if your going to do analysis and peer-reviewed research on why people stereotype.

Like someone already mentioned, it states in the manual that you need to check them every so often. I did on my for the first few hundred hours. ANd they were always looser than the previous time I tightened them. So they do work loose and need re torqued.

Not pointing the finger at you, cause I dont have all of the details. But on the surface, the tone of this thread is going the direction of: not changing the oil for 400 hours and it is supposed to be done at 50, and now the motor is trashed.....

Again, not pointing the finger. But it dont matter if it is a case, massey, deere, etc. It wouldnt have made a difference in your case. And it also dont go well when you start talking like this

 

[ovrszd]

Capable and designed for are two different things. The point is going beyond what it is designed to do on a regular basis, checking the bolts as it says in the manual is pretty necessary Ballast/loaded tires/etc. makes the job easier on the tractor, not harder (up to a certain point)… the FEL frame is protected in the direction of loading/grabbing/etc. by the relief valves. The protection for pushing/pulling is only based on the traction available, and while the loaded tires/weight increases that, they are also prescribed in the manual for proper loader operation.

My point about ballast was that it increases the forces applied to the loader frame dramatically. I believe all tractors with FELs to be built to withstand normal use within reason. I'm sure they actually have a built-in cushion to protect them even more. Where we change all that is with ballast and/or traction gaining methods, i.e., chains, etc.

 

[psient]

I get it. Although intended for ishiboo, I'll construct some kind of way to add ballast to the rear of the tractor. That's what will help yes? Do you have to be mindful beyond common sense of the forces on the 3 point? That is to say, my hitch has 2 hydraulic rams, one for lift one for tilt. Taking this into account. Should the weights be on a toolbar? Do I need to fabricate a bracket? Do I need to drop the 3 point arms to maximize the ballast carried?

 

[ovrszd]

I get it. Although intended for ishiboo, I'll construct some kind of way to add ballast to the rear of the tractor. That's what will help yes? Do you have to be mindful beyond common sense of the forces on the 3 point? That is to say, my hitch has 2 hydraulic rams, one for lift one for tilt. Taking this into account. Should the weights be on a toolbar? Do I need to fabricate a bracket? Do I need to drop the 3 point arms to maximize the ballast carried?

Your 3pt will handle the amount of ballast you would need. 3pt is designed to carry loads and tolerate pulling forces. A ballast weight isn't going to hurt it any.

Understand that when you add ballast to the rear, regardless of what method you use, you increase the forces that the tractor can impose on the FEL frame and it's mountings. Although I work the snot outta my FEL, I NEVER ram it into anything. I gently approach the task and smoothly add the forces of the tractor after contact is made, regardless of what attachment I have on the FEL.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I bought our tractor with loader to help dig a pond, sounds like I better be carful how I use it!! maybe I should have put a loader on the 165 Massey.

I dug a small pond with my FEL AND box blade. I used the scarifiers to loosen up the soil on each pass as I was scooping up the loose stuff from the previous pass. I did this till I got to soft moist soil that I could pick up with the FEL without scarifying. My final depth was when I hit shale bed rock and I did occasionally hit a large rock that would stall the tractor but I was travelling slow so no damage to the FEL. You can use an FEL to dig, you just have to go slow and not strain it too much. The box blade and scarifiers sure helped a bunch, and it takes some coordination to use both FEL and rear hydraulics at the same time but it doubles the rate of dirt moving when you use both.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I might add that my FEL mounting bolts were loose when I checked them at 40 hours. At least one was several threads loose and most of them took at least a half round to tighten them up. My torque wrench was a breaker bar with all I could put on it where I could use a socket and the other was all I could put on a wrench by looping the boxed end of a second wrench on to the open end of the one on the bolt. Laying under the tractor about the most I could do is lift myself off the ground. Last time I checked they were all still tight.